What Brought you in to Politics?

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Re: What Brought you in to Politics? Wed May 27, 2009 6:50 pm

Liche wrote:

So when Zealot was young he was a stereotypical American.

For me when I was young it was quite the opposite, all of the other kids were militaristic and mindlessly religious except me, I loved Peace, animals, and Science.

same here i was the guy with the mac computer game called lode runner, and everyday all my friends and me went home to me and played it, we made our own maps for it, it was awesome. at that time i weared oldschool clothes. the teacher was a sadists so the parents got her fired. and i also remember i was the most popular boy, all the other boys wanted to play with me. and my two best friends always fought eachother for being the best friend with me, but i tried to make them equal to me. i was the guy with the funny and retarded jokes. i have always been intressted in politics, but when i really began to intresst me was when one of my friends wanted me to join the socialist people party youth with him, and we joined it. and on my birthday we sat and stamped papers in the office and they gave us icecream for the party work. after some years he and i quited because we didnt wanted to pay the bills, now im more for the unity-list (most leftish party in the parliament, but the socialist peoples party is still my favorit because its populist.

question for zealot, Hey why dont you start a youtube channel! that could be so awesome! right now there are really many atheist that have their own youtube channel and they debate with the ortodox christians and creationist (tyrong knows Wink

) if you joined the debate as an communist atheist you would get popular when you tell them about how real communism is. yay.

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: What Brought you in to Politics? Wed May 27, 2009 8:17 pm

Liche wrote:

So when Zealot was young he was a stereotypical American.

I actually favoured US government a lot and dreamed that in the future USA and Russia would join to beat the crap out of the countries they didn't like.

Liche wrote:

For me when I was young it was quite the opposite, all of the other kids were militaristic and mindlessly religious except me, I loved Peace, animals, and Science.

I've always loved animals... that's why I was ecoterrorist. I even dreamed about employing the military to sink whaling ships, hunt hunters down and such.

Tyrlop wrote:

question for zealot, Hey why dont you start a youtube channel! that could be so awesome! right now there are really many atheist that have their own youtube channel and they debate with the ortodox christians and creationist (tyrong knows Wink

) if you joined the debate as an communist atheist you would get popular when you tell them about how real communism is. yay.

I have a youtube channel but haven't made any serious videos, I plan to make them though, plus a collection of me singing a capella.

About religion, Tyrong pretty much introduced me to the world of creationism. Amazingly here in Mexico that is much less of a problem as most people, even very religious ones, acknowledge evolution and science in general, that's why I wasn't aware of the real extent of the creationist problem. And I'm not atheist. I'm an agnostic theist - I don't know for sure if god exists or not, I don't have proof for it but since it's possible that he may exist I prefer to believe in god and a soul, it hurts no one. I'm often an enemy of gnosticism in general, both theist and atheist and of religious militantism. For a guy to claim that he knows all the truths of the universe so he must be right, to claim to knw more about the universe than people that have devoted their lifes entirely to its study and aknowledge they don't know a 10th of it, it is required a level of abhorrent arrogance.

And I do plan to introduce atheists into communism. I've noticed that most rational atheists do not know what communism stands for, at all, some even going as far as to compare communism with religion - something that can only be done when completely igorant of the characteristics of communism. For me capitalism is the modern obscurantism, it is literally like a religion - based entirely on mass ignorance, deception, alienation and submission, based on the religious belief that just because some guy discovered something first (without acknowledging that said discovery was achieved thanks to his interaction at different levels with the community and the environment) he has the right to exploit others and these should accept this condition as natural and as a "willing exchange". That is indeed religious.

Unfortunately, I've found that several atheists, seemigly rational, are extremely thick skulled in these regards, something that definitely has come as a surprise to me since I don't conceive hoe rational people can't be communist unless they're real sociopaths.

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**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: What Brought you in to Politics? Wed May 27, 2009 8:45 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Nah, it was just one block away from my home and my mother thought it'd be a nice idea for me to socialize with guys my age and similar in procedence in such an activity. She's not even zionist and she's not jewish in practice.

Oh okay, good I guess.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

And yes, in Israel there's a strict draft but these Mexican Jewish Zionists are a very different as they're not Israeli citizens.

The irony, but not much irony.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

It is a common practice by jews from all over the world to go to Israel when they become 18-19 years old and do one of these two things either enlist in the army or go to kibutzim, some do both. There is a program, or was, I'm not sure, where the Israeli state pays you your trip as a foreign jew to perform these activities. they often last for 1 year and a half to a handful of years after which most of those Jews return to their native countries.

Easy money. Razz

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Actually I wanted to do that around those times where I was zionist. I wanted to be in the armoured forces, preferably as the gunner of a Merkava. Silly childhood dream. Although I've always loved tanks, but now in a very different, deeper and more complex way.

Deeper and more complex way?
... right
jk

But what's a Merkava?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Yes, if your lastname is Hitler.

Then I'm good.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

12-13. People were more trollable back then.

More trollable then? Ya I believe that.
You filthy meany face troll!!! RRAGE!

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Nope, agnostic theist.

But religion is diffrent from Communism, I mean all the worshipness and all in religion. It suprises me that you are agnostic.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

My father was of catholic ancestorship although he was a moderate theist that would have embraced whatever religion. However, he was the friend of the director of that school, so he got me in there and it seems that they made us a disccount for that, so that's why I was there.

Ya dad a real player with powerful friends I bet.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

I remember that in religion class I told to the teacher "I'm jew" and she yelled and said "Who told you that?!" and I replied "My mom". And she grabbed me by the hand and got some holy water and put it on my forehead and whatnot....

LOL!

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

My name is Earl (I hope you get the reference)

Yay. That show stopped btw. To bad, I kinda liked it.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

I ain't a rednik and was never a rednik. Want a redneck check those southern US exemplars.

I know, but you are still a redneck cuz your neck is RED! HAHAHA OMFG, good stuff.. yeaaahh..
'Nuff said.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Also, that's why I hate internet trolls and spammers - they're like little children making pranks by phone and such stupid activities, they just pollute an excellent means of information difusion, although soe of them can be quite worthy.

Indeed, tho sometime its funny.
Like 4chan for example, its cool and all, the pics from it, but sometimes it gets a little to.. well I dont know, just to much, and somethings are not funny. Like harrasing people IRL but also pics of cancer and shit.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: What Brought you in to Politics? Wed May 27, 2009 11:53 pm

CoolKidX wrote:

Easy money. Razz

Not really - easy trip to Israel at best. They pay your airplane ticket and obviously your expenditures as soldier, maybe some small salary. If you go to a Kibutz, then you're subject to the economic rules of that specific Kibutz and Kibutzim are not precisely places where you go to become rich, you know...

CKX wrote:

Deeper and more complex way?
... right
jk

Before I liked tanks as much as a car fan would like cars. Now I see them as complex pieces of art of engineering, understand their workings much better and hate their purpose. Still I can read for hours about them.

CKX wrote:

But what's a Merkava?

"Merkava" means "chariot" in Hebrew, like the chariots used by egyptians, romans and several others as a complement for their cavalry forces. Since the chariot was a cavalry unit it pretty much served, at least partially, in the same way tanks do today so teh Israelis named their indigenously made tank (with pieces from US and Germany), Merkava.

CKX wrote:

More trollable then? Ya I believe that.
You filthy meany face troll!!! RRAGE!

Childpranks.

CKX wrote:

But religion is diffrent from Communism, I mean all the worshipness and all in religion.

Political, economical and social ideology is different from religion or in this case belief or disbelief in god. They're not mutually exclusive, you can be entirely convinced that god exists and be a communist and you can be still a communist and be a convinced atheist. They're not even linked. The only way belief in god could oppose communism or affect the communisticity of the individual is if said belief in god implied disacknowledgement of historical materialism, in other words, if as a communist you based your conviction that workers must own the means of production because god has said so and that they've been in such condition until now because so he wanted instead of attributing that to class relationships. But well, that would be to go into the same debate as "god caused evolution and science".

Religion is another personal or communitary matter that may or may not influde on the communisticity of individuals. Religion, in essence, is a culture based around the worshipping or ritualistic and pragmatic acknowlegement of supranatural phenomena ranging from soul, ghosts and such to god(s). So long as it doesn't coercively affect uninvolved parties , I don't see why it should be opposed, and if rationally justified, I don't see how it cold be even criticized.

CKX wrote:

It suprises me that you are agnostic.

It would surprise me that you're not except I'm almost sure yo don't know what "agnosticism" stands for.

I contend that two elements compose the core of position towards the existance of god:

Gnosticism - Claim of certainty and knowledge about the topic. A position of those that claim to even have evidence to support their claim.

Theism - Belief in god.

With their opposites: Agnosticism and Atheism.

By these premises you can be a Gnostic Theist, Gnostic Atheist, Agnostic Theist and Agnostic Atheist.

The Gnostic Theist is the one who claims to be certain about god's existance and even goes as far as to claim that they possess evidence to support their claim. Creationists are an excellent example of Gnostic Theists and as you know they're sometimes even often aggressive in the search to impose their position.

The Gnostic Atheist is often a militant and sometimes aggressive atheist that claims to be able to demonstrate that god doesn't exist or even claims to be able to demonstrate the impossibility of God. When a gnostic atheist tries to deffend his posture, it tends to be apparently defensible by logic through the following arguement "There is no evidence of god so within my knowledge there is no god. So long as god is not verifiable he doesn't exist". I often contend that it is inaccurate to claim with certainty that god doesn't exist so long as not all information about the universe has been harnessed. Unless you know everything that lays behind a phenomenon, you can't claim certainty and lack of proof is certainly not proof for nonexistance as we may be unable to gather the evidence we require to suufice our evidential standards.

The Agnostic Theist claims to not know for certain whether god exists or not. He often claims that it is impossible to demonstrate either claim and therefore chooses to belief in god for whatever reason. In my case I choose to believe in god because 1) god is possible, 2) I definitely like to think that there's something beyond our control that rules the universe, something that gives meaning to all these massive movement of particles 3) it affects no one negatively.

The Agnostic Atheist claims no certainty on the existance of god, admits god as a possibility but chooses not to believe in the existance of god so long as there is no evidence that expressely proves god's existance without closing themselves to the possibility.

The agnostic possition towards god is often that of "God, if existant, hasn't provided us with conclusive evidence as to whether he exists or not, whether he affects us or not, whether he's aware of us or not and whether he does want to be worshipped or not, therefore,if existant but unnafecting, there's no relevance to the belief, if existant but unconcerned there's no reason to worship him, if existant and concerned, since he's omnipotent and omniscient, he would have surely given evidenceto both his existance and his concern. If existant, ominpotent, omniscient and concerned without giving conclusive evidence to his existance and desiring of worship and punishing, then sadistic. If sadistic, why worship?"

The topic is pretty broad and hs been discussed in the pantheon already and if you desire to continue debating this I suggest we do it there. Although I made my point clear.

CKX wrote:

Ya dad a real player with powerful friends I bet.

That's all he's got, friends that help him with their influence to thrivea little bit, in exchange of training horses and taking care of animals.

CKX wrote:

Yay. That show stopped btw. To bad, I kinda liked it.

Redneck collection there. Somewhat funny show.

CKX wrote:

Indeed, tho sometime its funny.
Like 4chan for example, its cool and all, the pics from it, but sometimes it gets a little to.. well I dont know, just to much, and somethings are not funny. Like harrasing people IRL but also pics of cancer and shit.

Well some of them even have the ideology that people give too much relevance to internet interaction when it's purely virtual and thus, according to them, unreal. I disagree with them on teh grounds that it is as real as a relationship in which the parts get in touch through phone or correspondence. Eventually, this virtual interaction can potentially become a face-to-face constant and strongly relevant interaction based on the foundations of the virtual relationship and the fact that said virtual means were the method through which the parties in the relationship kept in contact with first.

Most trolls are just a really nuisance.

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**Liche** · Subject: Re: What Brought you in to Politics? Thu May 28, 2009 12:47 am

I would like to hear you sing A Capella, that would be cool.