|
|
| Author | Message |
|---|
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
 |  Subject: Re: Hello  Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:42 pm | |
| | mononokifool wrote: | | mattabesta wrote: | | mononokifool wrote: | | mattabesta wrote: |
you see some one who ones more than you or lives a better life you wil want to exed him even if he is just as happy as you. |
Only becuase people have been conditioned to think like this, in human nature people do whats good for everyone. Like in tribes when there was no money. People would work on the farm that was for everyone |
tribes had exhange of goods money just makes it eseyer.
work on the farm or DIE |
So how is that any different now? |
becuse you can work in a office? |
|
  | |
Cyprian Uljanow
World Republic Party Member
Age : 29
Joined : 25 Mar 2008
Posts : 661
Location : Wroclaw
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:47 pm | |
| | thats Anarcho-communism actually |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:47 am | |
| | Anarcho-communists want to immediately abolish the state. Marxists want the state to eventually wither away, so society will go from the lower stage of communism (socialism) to the higher stage, where there is no state, classes or money. Regular socialists want the state to exist forever. |
|
| | |
oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1497
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:58 am | |
| Anarchism and utopian socialism are very differnet but welcome anyway.
_________________
 |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:00 am | |
| | Anarchism is a modern form of the old utopian socialism of More and Fourier. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:04 am | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Anarchism is a modern form of the old utopian socialism of More and Fourier. |
you are kind of right but I think ancrasism is more about livin it your own way and the survival of the fiitest wich makes it knind of rightist |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:08 am | |
| | Anarchism is nothing because it is impossible, even theoretically, and makes no sense. They want to abolish the state without abolishing class antagonisms. Obviously the state is a way for one class to dominate another and so even if you tried to remove the state without removing classes the state would still exist. Anarchists are like Marxists who don't know what a state is. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:11 am | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Anarchism is nothing because it is impossible, even theoretically, and makes no sense. They want to abolish the state without abolishing class antagonisms. Obviously the state is a way for one class to dominate another and so even if you tried to remove the state without removing classes the state would still exist. Anarchists are like Marxists who don't know what a state is. |
ancraism aims to remove the sate and make pepole roam free( it's purest form I think)
with it there will be no real governance but classes will exist becuse those more fit to do what it takes to survive will become better off.
and why do you think the state is a thing for classes todominate anothere?
classe aren't races they are tempoary classafications of a persons wealth. |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:16 am | |
| | Quote: | classes will exist becuse those more fit to do what it takes to survive will become better off.
|
By classes I don't mean how rich someone is. Classe in the Marxist sense are determined by relationship to means of production. That means all workers are in the same class, even if some make $20,000 a year and some make $280,000.
| Quote: | | why do you think the state is a thing for classes todominate anothere |
Because the definition of state is an instrument for one class to dominate another. The Marxist defintion at least. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:21 am | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | classes will exist becuse those more fit to do what it takes to survive will become better off.
|
By classes I don't mean how rich someone is. Classe in the Marxist sense are determined by relationship to means of production. That means all workers are in the same class, even if some make $20,000 a year and some make $280,000.
| Quote: | | why do you think the state is a thing for classes todominate anothere |
Because the definition of state is an instrument for one class to dominate another. The Marxist defintion at least. |
ok so it is just like those who work in an office are one class and so on ?
anyone can become priminister of Iceland as long as he is 25 years old and his party's leader has chosen him to be pm.
it doen´t matter wich class his family was or is he can become powerfull. |
|
| | |
mononokifool
Experienced Party Member
Age : 19
Joined : 30 Mar 2008
Posts : 816
Location : Florida
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:31 am | |
| | mattabesta wrote: | | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | classes will exist becuse those more fit to do what it takes to survive will become better off.
|
By classes I don't mean how rich someone is. Classe in the Marxist sense are determined by relationship to means of production. That means all workers are in the same class, even if some make $20,000 a year and some make $280,000.
| Quote: | | why do you think the state is a thing for classes todominate anothere |
Because the definition of state is an instrument for one class to dominate another. The Marxist defintion at least. |
ok so it is just like those who work in an office are one class and so on ?
anyone can become priminister of Iceland as long as he is 25 years old and his party's leader has chosen him to be pm.
it doen´t matter wich class his family was or is he can become powerfull. |
So a party is going to put some poor guy as the leader of there party? thats not how things work
_________________
 |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:32 am | |
| | mononokifool wrote: | | mattabesta wrote: | | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | classes will exist becuse those more fit to do what it takes to survive will become better off.
|
By classes I don't mean how rich someone is. Classe in the Marxist sense are determined by relationship to means of production. That means all workers are in the same class, even if some make $20,000 a year and some make $280,000.
| Quote: | | why do you think the state is a thing for classes todominate anothere |
Because the definition of state is an instrument for one class to dominate another. The Marxist defintion at least. |
ok so it is just like those who work in an office are one class and so on ?
anyone can become priminister of Iceland as long as he is 25 years old and his party's leader has chosen him to be pm.
it doen´t matter wich class his family was or is he can become powerfull. |
So a party is going to put some poor guy as the leader of there party? thats not how things work |
if he has a good agenda then there is no reson why not. |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:04 am | |
| | Quote: | | ok so it is just like those who work in an office are one class and so on ? |
No, all the workers are one class and the capitalists are the other class. Only 2 classes.
| Quote: | | anyone can become priminister of Iceland as long as he is 25 years old and his party's leader has chosen him to be pm. |
To be president you have to be rich enough to afford a very expensive campaign. And even if by some fluke you managed to become president you are a capitalist because the state owns part of the means of production. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:11 am | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | | ok so it is just like those who work in an office are one class and so on ? |
No, all the workers are one class and the capitalists are the other class. Only 2 classes.
| Quote: | | anyone can become priminister of Iceland as long as he is 25 years old and his party's leader has chosen him to be pm. |
To be president you have to be rich enough to afford a very expensive campaign. And even if by some fluke you managed to become president you are a capitalist because the state owns part of the means of production. |
umm capitalists aren't a class there are tree classes low, mid, high.
in many cuntries partyes get state funding depending on members and they use them for a campain and if they get voted the biggest party chanses are they get into office and the leader wich can be anone becuse he is voted by the generlall assembely of the party wich is tottaly unrelated to money simply theyer agenda ot opinion and history. |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:15 am | |
| | Quote: | umm capitalists aren't a class there are tree classes low, mid, high.
|
 You're funny. Classes in Marxism are defined as groups of people with a different relationship to the means of production (also known as private property). The capitalists own it and the workers do not. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:22 am | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | umm capitalists aren't a class there are tree classes low, mid, high.
|
You're funny. Classes in Marxism are defined as groups of people with a different relationship to the means of production (also known as private property). The capitalists own it and the workers do not. |
lolz you think the ownere dosen't do any thing???
being an owner of a companey is heayy shit man my dad owned one and I never saw him off the comp. |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:10 am | |
| | Quote: | lolz you think the ownere dosen't do any thing???
|
Your posts never have anything to do with what anyone says. I think you're doingit on purpose to get out of having to make a response. I never said the owner doesn't do anything. They are just in a different class. Working class and capitalist class are just labels, it doesn't mean the capitalists don't ever do work. |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:04 pm | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | lolz you think the ownere dosen't do any thing???
|
Your posts never have anything to do with what anyone says. I think you're doingit on purpose to get out of having to make a response. I never said the owner doesn't do anything. They are just in a different class. Working class and capitalist class are just labels, it doesn't mean the capitalists don't ever do work. |
so capital are executives and then workers are those who use manual labour? |
|
| | |
Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2640
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:46 pm | |
| | capitalists are those who employ the workers |
|
| | |
Kenzu
Experienced Party Member
Age : 21
Joined : 17 Aug 2007
Posts : 811
Location : China - Shanghai
| | Subject: Re: Hello Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:01 pm | |
| | oligarch wrote: | | Anarchism and utopian socialism are very differnet but welcome anyway. |
No, the idea of anarchism is I would say very similiar to communism. No government, everything works...
There are some right wing anarchists, but these are few. Vast majority of Anarchists promote most of communist principles and have simliar goals. |
|
| | |
|
Home 
FAQ 
Search 
Register 
Log in 
