beatnikzach
Experienced Party Member
Age : 17
Joined : 10 Apr 2008
Posts : 810
Location : amerika
 |  Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky  Thu May 29, 2008 6:44 pm | |
| haha your starting to say idealist like a maoist says revisionist.
you say comrade lenin and comrade trotsky didnt understand marxism when they are some of the most revered orthodox marxists there ever were.
the vanguard party is a perfect representation of the people thats why it was chosen.
wasnt lenin your avatar? hahaha.
your reading to much kautsky.
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mononokifool
Experienced Party Member
Age : 19
Joined : 30 Mar 2008
Posts : 816
Location : Florida
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Thu May 29, 2008 7:32 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | Yah im serial lenin serioously made marxism idealistic. |
i call bullshit.
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Black_Cross
Experienced Party Member
Age : 20
Joined : 04 Apr 2008
Posts : 909
Location : Land of the free, but not me
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Thu May 29, 2008 7:42 pm | |
| | beatnikzach wrote: | | you say comrade lenin and comrade trotsky didnt understand marxism when they are some of the most revered orthodox marxists there ever were. |
I doubt many communists give Trotsky any credit as being an orthodox marxist.
| Quote: | | the vanguard party is a perfect representation of the people thats why it was chosen. |
I'm not takin sides in this, but i've gotta say, that's just baloney. How can any small group of people dare to say they represent the millions of toiling masses? It's utterly impossible. And i think they showed that in the Russian revolution. Not only did they not know what the people needed and wanted, they actively and militarily opposed the people.
Heh, Al Gore 
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Youth is revolutionary
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I light my spliff with the flag, while i'm burnin it |
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Stos
Komsomol Member
Joined : 14 Sep 2008
Posts : 169
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:36 pm | |
| | Not a hero, but not a villain either. Also, 'orthodox Marxists'? |
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beatnikzach
Experienced Party Member
Age : 17
Joined : 10 Apr 2008
Posts : 810
Location : amerika
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:17 am | |
| i wrote that when i was a marxist leninist.
but he was a hero, im related to many a people who faught at his side.
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WeiWuWei
Young Komsomol Member
Age : 19
Joined : 14 Apr 2008
Posts : 106
Location : Florida
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:59 am | |
| | Anarchist.Dagger wrote: | | beatnikzach wrote: | | the vanguard party is a perfect representation of the people thats why it was chosen. |
I'm not takin sides in this, but i've gotta say, that's just baloney. How can any small group of people dare to say they represent the millions of toiling masses? It's utterly impossible. And i think they showed that in the Russian revolution. Not only did they not know what the people needed and wanted, they actively and militarily opposed the people. |
I agree with this completely, but for more than the reason you stated.
Vanguard Parties (Leninism.) are, in my opinion, completely antithetical to any conception of legitimate democracy, and they are the equivalent to our elitist representatives (Liberalism.) here in the West who are voted upon by the population. Although economically they may differ, they are ideologically similar; they both have this very bourgeois conception that the public, being too stupid and disorganized to be able to manage their own affairs, must be pushed along and be told what to do by an elite class of people.
Now this doesn't mean that they're both not "gracious" classes of leaders; every couple of years, the public - again, being too stupid to actually make decisions concerning themselves - get to put in their opinion on which ruler will rule them. In this way, the public gets this misconception that they actually make a difference and that their owners give a shit about what they think.
That's the problem with free societies. In the past, you used to just be able to wave a bludgeon over people's heads, and if they stepped out of line, you just needed to smash them and be done with it. But the freer the society becomes, you get this problem that people, being so curious and so arrogant to think that they can actually manage their own affairs, start to question power. It becomes, then, necessary to indoctrinate them with this lie that they need their leaders.
I don't care if they're called "vanguard parties" or "Republican party" or "Democratic party" or whatever. They're all abusive, they all hate the public, and they all think we're to stupid to act in our own interests, end of story.
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"Therefore the Master says:
I let go of the law,
and people become honest.
I let go of economics,
and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion,
and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good,
and the good becomes common as grass."
-- Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching |
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Stos
Komsomol Member
Joined : 14 Sep 2008
Posts : 169
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:03 am | |
| | o/ Anarchists. |
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Liche
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 15
Joined : 29 Jan 2008
Posts : 1552
Location : USA-Virginia
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:28 pm | |
| Trotsky is my hero 
his hair looks like mign. |
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beatnikzach
Experienced Party Member
Age : 17
Joined : 10 Apr 2008
Posts : 810
Location : amerika
| | Subject: Re: Leon Trotsky Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:11 am | |
| to bad im balding :[
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