| Is virtue purely subjective ? |    |
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inkus2000
New Party Member
Joined : 31 Mar 2008
Posts : 541
Location : I woke up this morning and I dont know where I am.
|  Subject: Is virtue purely subjective ?  Sun May 25, 2008 11:42 pm | |
| Is the idea of virtue subjective ?
Everyone has an idea of what is perfect - the ideas vary but concept of perfection is inherent in all and remains the same.
Why do we all have the idea's of virtue and perfection - where do they come from ? |
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solpacvoicis
Young Komsomol Member
Joined : 18 May 2008
Posts : 134
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon May 26, 2008 12:19 am | |
| | inkus2000 wrote: | | Is the idea of virtue subjective ? |
yes, different people find different things virtuous...
| inkus2000 wrote: | | Everyone has an idea of what is perfect - the ideas vary but concept of perfection is inherent in all and remains the same. |
people aren't born knowing what perfection is, they grow up learning about different traits in the people around them, and take the "good" qualities of the people they admire, add them up, and call it perfection
| inkus2000 wrote: | | Why do we all have the idea's of virtue and perfection - where do they come from ? |
we all live in different cultures, but when it gets down to it, people have pretty much the same stories and ideas. why? because humans pass down these stories, which generally try and teach some lesson, usually pertaining to either creation or virtues. as stated before, perfection is the sum of all good qualities (which are called virtues)
so...they come from human's collective past =D |
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inkus2000
New Party Member
Joined : 31 Mar 2008
Posts : 541
Location : I woke up this morning and I dont know where I am.
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon May 26, 2008 3:49 am | |
| | Quote: |
people aren't born knowing what perfection is, they grow up learning about different traits in the people around them, and take the "good" qualities of the people they admire, add them up, and call it perfection |
Yes the ideas of 'what is' perfect very but the idea of perfection itself exists regardless of external factors - for example if you where born on the moon you would still have an idea of what is perfect.
| Quote: |
we all live in different cultures, but when it gets down to it, people have pretty much the same stories and ideas. why? because humans pass down these stories, which generally try and teach some lesson, usually pertaining to either creation or virtues. as stated before, perfection is the sum of all good qualities (which are called virtues) |
What purpose do you think the idea of 'virtue' serves - if it exists as an idea part of human nature it must serve a function. |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:42 pm | |
| virtue and all kinds of morals are bullshit dogma
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"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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revolution
World Republic Party Member
Age : 908
Joined : 15 Oct 2007
Posts : 759
Location : Virginia
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:31 am | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | all kinds of morals are bullshit |
So you believe its okay to kill and steal? |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:33 am | |
| No. That would be morals also. I dont believe its good but I dont believe its not good either.
Im talking objectively here. There are no objective morals. However of course subjectively personally I cant stop myself from thinking murder is wrong but it really isnt.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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solpacvoicis
Young Komsomol Member
Joined : 18 May 2008
Posts : 134
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:07 am | |
| | inkus2000 wrote: |
Yes the ideas of 'what is' perfect very but the idea of perfection itself exists regardless of external factors - for example if you where born on the moon you would still have an idea of what is perfect.
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no, what i mean is...all ideas in human culture were created in the beginning of human existence, and have been passed down since then. and people don't have to strive to be perfect. things vary more than you think, for example, in most older cultures, it was considered honorable to kill if you had a good reason.
| inkus2000 wrote: |
What purpose do you think the idea of 'virtue' serves - if it exists as an idea part of human nature it must serve a function. |
it serves no definitive purpose. it came to being along with the concept of law, protecting the weak, etc. you can't exactly protect everyone and make them feel safe if they know they could be killed by someone or stolen from at any time, so children were instructed by elders not to do these things, or they would be thrown out of the community... |
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
Experienced Party Member
Age : 17
Joined : 03 Feb 2008
Posts : 835
Location : The Circle of Flow
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:38 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | No. That would be morals also. I dont believe its good but I dont believe its not good either.
Im talking objectively here. There are no objective morals. However of course subjectively personally I cant stop myself from thinking murder is wrong but it really isnt. |
So your also saying that rape, slavery, and incest aren't crimes either? That it's okay to do that crap?
Human's naturally avoid incest and rape simply because their brains are HARD-WIRED to do so. If the conditions (whether it be social, health, whatever) prevent that natural avoidance otherwise, there's your problem.
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Then the stream of life will send me higher
To the end... |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:22 pm | |
| rape slavery incest arent morally wrong or morally right.
any ethical statement is inherently dogmatic
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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WeiWuWei
Pioneer Leader
Age : 19
Joined : 14 Apr 2008
Posts : 84
Location : Florida
| | Subject: Re: Is virtue purely subjective ? Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:29 pm | |
| I'm inclined to agree with Watermelon. Virtues and vices are entirely subjective and, no offense to you Jeiro, but using current moral repugnances as evidences of things that are universally morally indefendable is, in itself, a subjective argument, because that assumes that everyone will think that such things are bad, or good. For the most part, we share certain ideas on what is and what is not morally virtuous, but that's not to say that everyone else feels the same way. Even with the extreme examples you listed.
This was kind of jumbled. tl;dr all virtues are subjective.
_________________
"Therefore the Master says:
I let go of the law,
and people become honest.
I let go of economics,
and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion,
and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good,
and the good becomes common as grass."
-- Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching |
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