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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1492
 |  Subject: "Opiate of the masses"  Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:54 am | |
| To clear up some confusion on the matter, religion being the "opium of the people" is not the Marxist stance in regards to religion. It is a Hegelian statement that is taken out of context, Marx is saying that religion is a symptom of alienation. Marxists see organized religion as s social institution to be analyzed in regards to class relations. True, religion is sometimes an addictive drug, but sometimes it is a force for social justice and peace, and still other times it is harmless mysticism with little social impact. The important thing is that you can not generalize religion as being in any one of these categories but rather it must be analyzed in each scenario to determine its role in society which may be positive, negative, or neutral.
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revolution
World Republic Party Member
Age : 908
Joined : 15 Oct 2007
Posts : 792
Location : Virginia
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:41 am | |
| Opiate?
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Renegade_Kautsky
Worker of the World Republic
Joined : 16 Feb 2008
Posts : 350
Location : In the belly of the beast
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:28 am | |
| I would agree.. mostly.
I think religion is inherently devious because it mostly abdicates the surrender of reason to "faith" and the surrender of knowledge to "mystery". There are many religious people who do good in the name of it, but their many still who do evil. Religion is a tool that tyrants can use to gain the unquestioning support of a given group of people. In the U.S., you really see the bad side of it. Millions of people who coersed into voting a certain way because "god told" some reverand it was the right thing. And people actually do it. Why? Because if they go against "god's divine plan" then they're going to HELL! It wreaks of the 13th century!
Being raised Catholic, I can see why religion is appealing to some people. It makes the wretched and "broken" feel like their existence has a greater meaning or purpose. To quote George Carlin "Religion is the last line of defense for a failed human being".
To me, the whole thing is rather pathetic. People can't deal with the fact that they are merely sentient animals, or that their "purpose in life" is only what they make it to be. I think it is an opiate of sorts. It keeps people in bad situations baited with promises of heaven, instead of helping them improve the world which they live.
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“I have no country to fight for; my country is the earth, and I am a citizen of the world.”
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1492
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 am | |
| | Renegade_Kautsky wrote: | I would agree.. mostly.
I think religion is inherently devious because it mostly abdicates the surrender of reason to "faith" and the surrender of knowledge to "mystery". There are many religious people who do good in the name of it, but their many still who do evil. Religion is a tool that tyrants can use to gain the unquestioning support of a given group of people. In the U.S., you really see the bad side of it. Millions of people who coersed into voting a certain way because "god told" some reverand it was the right thing. And people actually do it. Why? Because if they go against "god's divine plan" then they're going to HELL! It wreaks of the 13th century!
Being raised Catholic, I can see why religion is appealing to some people. It makes the wretched and "broken" feel like their existence has a greater meaning or purpose. To quote George Carlin "Religion is the last line of defense for a failed human being".
To me, the whole thing is rather pathetic. People can't deal with the fact that they are merely sentient animals, or that their "purpose in life" is only what they make it to be. I think it is an opiate of sorts. It keeps people in bad situations baited with promises of heaven, instead of helping them improve the world which they live. |
True, but its not enough to simply dismiss religion as an addictive drug, you have to analyze it to determine its role in the class struggle. Here, as in many places it clearly has a negative effect but the main point is that saying riligion is the "opium of the people" is not Marxist.
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Liche
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 15
Joined : 29 Jan 2008
Posts : 1535
Location : USA-Virginia
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:14 am | |
| | oligarch wrote: | | Renegade_Kautsky wrote: | I would agree.. mostly.
I think religion is inherently devious because it mostly abdicates the surrender of reason to "faith" and the surrender of knowledge to "mystery". There are many religious people who do good in the name of it, but their many still who do evil. Religion is a tool that tyrants can use to gain the unquestioning support of a given group of people. In the U.S., you really see the bad side of it. Millions of people who coersed into voting a certain way because "god told" some reverand it was the right thing. And people actually do it. Why? Because if they go against "god's divine plan" then they're going to HELL! It wreaks of the 13th century!
Being raised Catholic, I can see why religion is appealing to some people. It makes the wretched and "broken" feel like their existence has a greater meaning or purpose. To quote George Carlin "Religion is the last line of defense for a failed human being".
To me, the whole thing is rather pathetic. People can't deal with the fact that they are merely sentient animals, or that their "purpose in life" is only what they make it to be. I think it is an opiate of sorts. It keeps people in bad situations baited with promises of heaven, instead of helping them improve the world which they live. |
True, but its not enough to simply dismiss religion as an addictive drug, you have to analyze it to determine its role in the class struggle. Here, as in many places it clearly has a negative effect but the main point is that saying riligion is the "opium of the people" is not Marxist. |
If you think about science, or religion too much it is proven you will go insane. Ex: Mormans(lol), Islamic Suicide Bombers, Cultists, German Flagelents during the Bubonic plague. |
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inkus2000
New Party Member
Joined : 31 Mar 2008
Posts : 541
Location : I woke up this morning and I dont know where I am.
| | Subject: religion Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:46 am | |
| I think religion is ok in itself however I remain suspicious of religious institutions esp large powerful ones. Religion is natural and appeals to many human needs. I do not believe that in accepting atheism we are any closer to the truth than if we where christian, atheism basiclly is the rearanging of illusion or 'percieved' reality. What we choose to believe today may be disproven in 1000 years, this renders us no more logical than the religious. Atheism chooses a newer version of understanding as opposed to an older model.
The 'scientific' mind once believed the earth was flat.
In relation to socialism I believe that many religions echo socialist values and are altruistic. Its a shame that many religious institutions despise socialism. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1492
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:41 am | |
| | inkus2000 wrote: | I think religion is ok in itself however I remain suspicious of religious institutions esp large powerful ones. Religion is natural and appeals to many human needs. I do not believe that in accepting atheism we are any closer to the truth than if we where christian, atheism basiclly is the rearanging of illusion or 'percieved' reality. What we choose to believe today may be disproven in 1000 years, this renders us no more logical than the religious. Atheism chooses a newer version of understanding as opposed to an older model.
The 'scientific' mind once believed the earth was flat.
In relation to socialism I believe that many religions echo socialist values and are altruistic. Its a shame that many religious institutions despise socialism. |
Many christians are socialists and many christians are fascists, the Bible advocates both socialism and fascism so its just a matter of which way you choose to interpret it.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:04 pm | |
| As a communist I don't care what language people pray in, wether they go to a particular place for riatuals, etc. as long as it doesn't oppose communist principles.
I thik religion is essential for human being's identity.. |
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Cyprian Uljanow
World Republic Party Member
Age : 29
Joined : 25 Mar 2008
Posts : 658
Location : Wroclaw
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:55 pm | |
| | And as long as it doesn't demand some sort of profit form it's followers... damn scients |
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Voice of Reason
Komsomol Member
Joined : 12 Jan 2008
Posts : 178
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:18 pm | |
| I think it should be made clear that it doesn't need religion to kill people.
I guess the russians, chinese, vietnamese, afghans ..... were also not happy to be murdered in the millions by an atheist government. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:31 am | |
| | Voice of Reason wrote: | I think it should be made clear that it doesn't need religion to kill people.
I guess the russians, chinese, vietnamese, afghans ..... were also not happy to be murdered in the millions by an atheist government. |
Stalin wasn't quite Atheist... in fact people as close to him as his bodyguards have testified that he prayed... |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1492
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:32 am | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | Voice of Reason wrote: | I think it should be made clear that it doesn't need religion to kill people.
I guess the russians, chinese, vietnamese, afghans ..... were also not happy to be murdered in the millions by an atheist government. |
Stalin wasn't quite Atheist... in fact people as close to him as his bodyguards have testified that he prayed... |
He went to a seminary and wanted to become a priest.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:34 am | |
| | oligarch wrote: |
He went to a seminary and wanted to become a priest. |
As far as I know, it is his mother who wanted him to become a priest as a way to thank god for Stalin surviving scepticemia. |
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Alek4A
Senior Komsomol Member
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 227
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Thu May 22, 2008 6:44 pm | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | I thik religion is essential for human being's identity.. |
What? I don't know if i agree with that. In fact I'd say its quite the oppisite. Religoun is a parrelel to autonomy and therfore a theft of identity to say the least. It advocates blind faith and therfore it advocates the surrendering of personal logic and with that the surrendering of that which defines us. |
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Black_Cross
Experienced Party Member
Age : 20
Joined : 04 Apr 2008
Posts : 904
Location : Land of the free, but not me
| | Subject: Re: "Opiate of the masses" Thu May 22, 2008 7:09 pm | |
| Well, this topic goes a ways back, but since it's found its way back to the top, i suppose i'll give my two cents.
| oligarch wrote: | | Many christians are socialists and many christians are fascists, the Bible advocates both socialism and fascism so its just a matter of which way you choose to interpret it. |
The bible doesn't advocate either. It gives hints of each. But the bible clearly states that god put great wealth and property in the hands of select people for a purpose. This is a gross contradiction or socialist beliefs.
| Quote: | | I thik religion is essential for human being's identity.. |
I can only assume you're saying this because you yourself are religious. It is farfetched to believe you are lacking in character or you're not made whole without religion. If people choose religion, i have to quarrels with that, but trying to say it is necessary for human development makes my skin crawl.
| Quote: | | Its a shame that many religious institutions despise socialism. |
Can you blame them? We're linked to some pretty hardcore killers, and this is not to our advantage.
And when the institutions despise us, it can easily be said that the rest of the religious community affiliated with the institution will despise us as well, since i rarely see a religious person question what their priests and pastors tell them.
| Quote: | I think it should be made clear that it doesn't need religion to kill people.
I guess the russians, chinese, vietnamese, afghans ..... were also not happy to be murdered in the millions by an atheist government. |
I don't really see how this has any relevance but to try and make socialists look bad, as if we all praise Mao and Stalin for their heroic manslaughter.
| Quote: | | "opium of the people" |
You know, I wonder why people don't just take opium. It tastes better, goes down easier, doesn't have a bitter aftertaste, and it gets you high as a kite. GG religion.
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Youth is revolutionary
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I light my spliff with the flag, while i'm burnin it |
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