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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
 |  Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator  Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:02 pm | |
| Jesus once said that wealth was a sin and for a rich man to get into hevean was like a camel to get through the hope of a neddle so that means that the church itself should not exist.
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"Dance like no one is watching,
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:42 pm | |
| | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | Jesus once said that wealth was a sin and for a rich man to get into hevean was like a camel to get through the hope of a neddle so that means that the church itself should not exist. |
you've read the bibel?
I am lerning for my konfirmation and i know that none of the things in the bibel are actully writen by jesus and theyer liability is very littel.
religion must adjust to the now and we must remember thet the bibel was writt 1900 year's ago, savery was evrywere and gay's were killed like beasts |
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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:17 am | |
| It is not in all copies of the bibel but he still showed himself against wealth any way the bibel is not the word of god all the new testament is is 4 guys who wrote about Jesus and only two of them where apposols and those four where choosen by the papacy. The old testament was just stories that acumalated from the word of man. The bibel is the product oif man and not that of a god. It is said that god based man (and woman) of himself in witch case 2000 years of unhindered worship would make any man corrupt, lazy and quick to temper these are not the trets that we should follow a god by. Read the his dark material books (now a film the pope went against supprise supprise  ) And you will see a different side to god in witch common sence and thought out resoning does not mean he does not exist just that he is not a great being  .
_________________
"Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
And live every day as if it was your last" ancient Irish proverbe |
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:20 am | |
| | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | It is not in all copies of the bibel but he still showed himself against wealth any way the bibel is not the word of god all the new testament is is 4 guys who wrote about Jesus and only two of them where apposols and those four where choosen by the papacy. The old testament was just stories that acumalated from the word of man. The bibel is the product oif man and not that of a god. It is said that god based man (and woman) of himself in witch case 2000 years of unhindered worship would make any man corrupt, lazy and quick to temper these are not the trets that we should follow a god by. Read the his dark material books (now a film the pope went against supprise supprise ) And you will see a different side to god in witch common sence and thought out resoning does not mean he does not exist just that he is not a great being . |
they were simly th only ones that the common pepole could read they were the only ones written in latin. |
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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:22 am | |
| | mattabesta wrote: | | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | It is not in all copies of the bibel but he still showed himself against wealth any way the bibel is not the word of god all the new testament is is 4 guys who wrote about Jesus and only two of them where apposols and those four where choosen by the papacy. The old testament was just stories that acumalated from the word of man. The bibel is the product oif man and not that of a god. It is said that god based man (and woman) of himself in witch case 2000 years of unhindered worship would make any man corrupt, lazy and quick to temper these are not the trets that we should follow a god by. Read the his dark material books (now a film the pope went against supprise supprise ) And you will see a different side to god in witch common sence and thought out resoning does not mean he does not exist just that he is not a great being . |
they were simly th only ones that the common pepole could read they were the only ones written in latin. |
And so not the word of god but of man.
_________________
"Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
And live every day as if it was your last" ancient Irish proverbe |
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| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:25 am | |
| | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | mattabesta wrote: | | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | It is not in all copies of the bibel but he still showed himself against wealth any way the bibel is not the word of god all the new testament is is 4 guys who wrote about Jesus and only two of them where apposols and those four where choosen by the papacy. The old testament was just stories that acumalated from the word of man. The bibel is the product oif man and not that of a god. It is said that god based man (and woman) of himself in witch case 2000 years of unhindered worship would make any man corrupt, lazy and quick to temper these are not the trets that we should follow a god by. Read the his dark material books (now a film the pope went against supprise supprise ) And you will see a different side to god in witch common sence and thought out resoning does not mean he does not exist just that he is not a great being . |
they were simly th only ones that the common pepole could read they were the only ones written in latin. |
And so not the word of god but of man. |
yeah of corse it wusn´t god how said what is written in the bibel it was jesus and his companions.
p.s the new textament includes a LOT more than just the gosbels |
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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:34 am | |
| But jesus didn't write the new testament it was made after his death.I know the new testament contains more then the gospel. Even then most of it was sellected after the death of Jesus and so could have easyly been two drunk priests having a laugh late in the night then when they woke up in the morning found a misterious scroll on the ground having a story of the past of it. We can not really on the bibel to show us how todo right.
_________________
"Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
And live every day as if it was your last" ancient Irish proverbe |
|
| | |
mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:01 pm | |
| | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | But jesus didn't write the new testament it was made after his death.I know the new testament contains more then the gospel. Even then most of it was sellected after the death of Jesus and so could have easyly been two drunk priests having a laugh late in the night then when they woke up in the morning found a misterious scroll on the ground having a story of the past of it. We can not really on the bibel to show us how todo right. |
it was written abour 25 ear after his death lots of books about alexander the gr8 exist and he was alive 2332 years ago |
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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:26 pm | |
| Yes but alexander could do great prophet skills and even that it does not say any thing about his death so no one knows how he died (big piece missing there)
_________________
"Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
And live every day as if it was your last" ancient Irish proverbe |
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Voice of Reason
Komsomol Member
Joined : 12 Jan 2008
Posts : 178
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:47 pm | |
| Jesus never condemned rich people he just said that money makes it harder to be a good person. He ate once with a rich man and didn't command him to give away all his property, only to pay back those whom he charged to much.
Also the church (I'm talking about the catholic one) itself is not rich. Neither is the pope, nor most of the clerics. All the income by church taxes and property rights is either used for restauration, Salary or humanitarian projects.
The church is an institution, made up of every single being it hosts.
The Gospels were written between 70-100 AD, Markus being the original one. We believe that none of the authors were apostles, but namesakes documenting the Teaching of the Apostles. Written in Hebrew(for Jews, Markus and John) and ancient Greek (for Pagans, Lukas and Matthew) these four were the most common Gospels used until the 3rd century when a council decided that these four Gospels were the true word of our lord.
Before anyone asks: There is a Gospel of MaryMagdalene, but it was written in the 6th century probably by the cainite sect.
Man was created in the image of God not as God. We just look like him, so to say. God is perfect and pure and by no means just 2000 years can change him.
Honestly, if you take "His Dark Materials" as the book you want to judge our faith on, I would recommend you not to discuss this topic. Or you could ask yourself what faith old Dumbledore followed and critisize that one, I bet it has unicorns in it (With long thick horns). ;-) |
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:30 pm | |
| | Mr.fredy5 wrote: | | Yes but alexander could do great prophet skills and even that it does not say any thing about his death so no one knows how he died (big piece missing there) |
my point is that past writings should be taken seriusly. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:21 am | |
| | Voice of Reason wrote: | Jesus never condemned rich people he just said that money makes it harder to be a good person. He ate once with a rich man and didn't command him to give away all his property, only to pay back those whom he charged to much.
Also the church (I'm talking about the catholic one) itself is not rich. Neither is the pope, nor most of the clerics. All the income by church taxes and property rights is either used for restauration, Salary or humanitarian projects.
The church is an institution, made up of every single being it hosts. |
Since the Pope has the right to manage money at will he defacto posseses it through the IOR thus making the church quite a rich institution.
| Voice of Reason wrote: |
The Gospels were written between 70-100 AD, Markus being the original one. We believe that none of the authors were apostles, but namesakes documenting the Teaching of the Apostles. Written in Hebrew(for Jews, Markus and John) and ancient Greek (for Pagans, Lukas and Matthew) these four were the most common Gospels used until the 3rd century when a council decided that these four Gospels were the true word of our lord.
Before anyone asks: There is a Gospel of MaryMagdalene, but it was written in the 6th century probably by the cainite sect.
Man was created in the image of God not as God. We just look like him, so to say. God is perfect and pure and by no means just 2000 years can change him.
Honestly, if you take "His Dark Materials" as the book you want to judge our faith on, I would recommend you not to discuss this topic. Or you could ask yourself what faith old Dumbledore followed and critisize that one, I bet it has unicorns in it (With long thick horns). ;-) |
I personally don't judge your faith. I simply judge the catholic church which is in my view simply a power-accumulating manipulating and faith exploitating institution which uses its influence in the benefit of the wealthiest and most powerful classes. |
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 17
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 3237
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:29 pm | |
| | anyway the pope is a dictator in the vatican but he is under no means an evil one. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:47 pm | |
| | mattabesta wrote: | | anyway the pope is a dictator in the vatican but he is under no means an evil one. |
Depends on what you consider "evil". The vatican is responsible for covering up mafia financial operations, narcotrafic, weapons traficking, financial and moral support of murderous right-wing dictatorships in Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Philippines, El Salvador and Honduras. If such things are not intrinsic to an "evil" person in your perspective, then, yeah, the Pope is not evil. |
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Voice of Reason
Komsomol Member
Joined : 12 Jan 2008
Posts : 178
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:39 pm | |
| I sincerely doubt that you have any evidence to proove the accusations you just made Zealot.
Anyway how can you be a dictator when you are elected to office by your peers in a democratic process. Even though it is of course the Holy Spirit talking through the cardinals who elevates the pope. |
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carmen510
Pioneer Leader
Joined : 27 Jan 2008
Posts : 76
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:49 pm | |
| We don't need to abolish the Catholic Church, and we don't need to ban the pope either. The pope is usually a major influence over people. Remember John Paul II? He was a great pope, giving hope to millions of people all over the world. We could have the next pope, maybe a socialist one.
Money is a different story. While religious figures DO need money to survive and to restore religious places, like the Vatican, they don't need to keep a lot of excess cash. Place that money in international organizations to help other countries. |
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Voice of Reason
Komsomol Member
Joined : 12 Jan 2008
Posts : 178
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:24 pm | |
| | They do. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:07 am | |
| | Voice of Reason wrote: | | I sincerely doubt that you have any evidence to proove the accusations you just made Zealot. |
Well, I base those accusations on serious researches which are based on the evidence themselves. So, while I don't have the evidence, I have material based on the existing evidence. Let aside simpe analysis of Vatican's policies, for example, regarding to international politics. John Paul II, for example, pleaded to Latin American priests not to get involved into political issues. Why? Because several priests in Latin America were supporters of left wing, they were people which were really in contact with the peoples of their nation thus supporting policies that benefited them. However, John Paul II was himself terribly involved in the financing and moral support of Solidarnosti. Not only incongruence but parcialism.
| Voice of Reason wrote: |
Anyway how can you be a dictator when you are elected to office by your peers in a democratic process. Even though it is of course the Holy Spirit talking through the cardinals who elevates the pope. |
I think we can call the Pope some sort of "democratically elected dictator". Why? because while he's chosen democratically within the cardinals, once he's elected his mandate should be followed without question. He can be criticized, but he after all has the last word. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Member of the Supreme Council
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 2561
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:16 am | |
| | carmen510 wrote: | | We don't need to abolish the Catholic Church, and we don't need to ban the pope either. The pope is usually a major influence over people. Remember John Paul II? He was a great pope, giving hope to millions of people all over the world. We could have the next pope, maybe a socialist one. |
The Catholic Church sponsors a plethora of crimes: from sexual abuse to murderous dictatorships and mafias.
John Paul II's "contributions" are greatly exagerated and sometimes based on phallacies. He was an avid supporter of Franco, for example. Some official John Paul II's Biographers claim that John Paul II did a lot to save Jews during WWII while he had admitted himself that he did nothing to aid them.
| carmen510 wrote: |
Money is a different story. While religious figures DO need money to survive and to restore religious places, like the Vatican, they don't need to keep a lot of excess cash. Place that money in international organizations to help other countries. |
Yeah every institution needs money to survive within a capitalist framework and such a masisve institution as the Vatican which aside searchesto have some political international influence needs a lot. What do they do with that excess money? They use it for the deffense of priests accused of sexual abuse, they use it to finance movements which can expand their influence, they use it for propaganda, indeed they share a dime or two with charitable organizations, they use it for marketing, for money washing. They need to keep that profitable business running... |
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Mr.fredy5
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 25 Jan 2008
Posts : 29
Location : dublin Ireland
| | Subject: Re: Pope is/was a Dictator Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:51 am | |
| | Quote: | | The Gospels were written between 70-100 AD, |
And the aposols where 50 when they joined jesus so they could not have made it hence it is not the word of god.
_________________
"Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening,
And live every day as if it was your last" ancient Irish proverbe |
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