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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
|  Subject: Defence of Stalin's USSR  Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:52 am | |
| | Before the Second World War, was a Stalinist Soviet Union worth defending as it had the potential to become a true worker's state, or was it's descent into bureaucratic tyranny to great? |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:52 am | |
| | It was indeed worth deffending it because it could have evolved into a socialist nation had Stalin applied the proper policies. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:03 am | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | It was indeed worth deffending it because it could have evolved into a socialist nation had Stalin applied the proper policies. |
But Stalin had no intention applying such policies. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:19 am | |
| | oligarch wrote: |
But Stalin had no intention applying such policies. |
Yet they could have been applied regadless of Stalin's eagerness to do that or not. USSR was a worthy state. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:22 am | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: |
Yet they could have been applied regadless of Stalin's eagerness to do that or not. USSR was a worthy state. |
I suppose Khrushchev could have once he came to power and I think he tried, just not hard enough, but it couldn't have happened while Stalin was still alive. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:59 am | |
| | oligarch wrote: |
I suppose Khrushchev could have once he came to power and I think he tried, just not hard enough, but it couldn't have happened while Stalin was still alive. |
Khrushchyov just increased capitalism within USSR, he could have implemented socialist policies but he simply made people more accustomed to market and consumerism. |
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ilych
Red Army Recruit
Age : 15
Joined : 01 Feb 2008
Posts : 277
Location : santa cruz, CA
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:10 am | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: |
Khrushchyov just increased capitalism within USSR, he could have implemented socialist policies but he simply made people more accustomed to market and consumerism. |
It was an attempt to bring the soviet union out of Stalinism and into a state where socialism could be built properly but he didnt try hard enough
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"I worked at a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a communist."
–Nikita Khrushchev |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:13 pm | |
| | ilych wrote: |
It was an attempt to bring the soviet union out of Stalinism and into a state where socialism could be built properly but he didnt try hard enough |
Socialism can't be implemented with capitalism. Socialism, being the transition to communism requires the State to start building and organizing the communist infrastructure and gradually eliminate capitalism. Khrushyov simply increased the use of market and consumerism to alleviate Soviet economy increasing people's accustomization to a capitalist Society. The bases put by Khrushyov made Gorbachyov's reforms to be easily applied to USSR. |
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 997
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 2982
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:16 pm | |
| | oligarch wrote: | | Before the Second World War, was a Stalinist Soviet Union worth defending as it had the potential to become a true worker's state, or was it's descent into bureaucratic tyranny to great? |
it was poised to become capatalist and corrupt. russia has a long history of a currubt goverment |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:21 pm | |
| | mattabesta wrote: | | oligarch wrote: | | Before the Second World War, was a Stalinist Soviet Union worth defending as it had the potential to become a true worker's state, or was it's descent into bureaucratic tyranny to great? |
it was poised to become capatalist and corrupt. russia has a long history of a currubt goverment |
Corruption is one of the freedoms allowed both by money and ambigous legislature. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:39 pm | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | ilych wrote: |
It was an attempt to bring the soviet union out of Stalinism and into a state where socialism could be built properly but he didnt try hard enough |
Socialism can't be implemented with capitalism. Socialism....Khrushyov simply increased the use of market and consumerism to alleviate Soviet economy... |
What about the NEP? |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:02 pm | |
| | oligarch wrote: |
What about the NEP? |
As far as I understand it it was also an approach to capitalism though probably could have been a transitory attempt. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:12 pm | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | oligarch wrote: |
What about the NEP? |
As far as I understand it it was also an approach to capitalism though probably could have been a transitory attempt. |
And Khrushchev didn't intend to permanently make the USSR capitalist. |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Chairman of the WR Committee
Age : 20
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Posts : 1861
Location : Mexico/Russia/World
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:33 pm | |
| | oligarch wrote: | | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | oligarch wrote: |
What about the NEP? |
As far as I understand it it was also an approach to capitalism though probably could have been a transitory attempt. |
And Khrushchev didn't intend to permanently make the USSR capitalist. |
If he didn't intended to stablish capitalism, then really he didn't try well enough. |
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themacintrasher
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 16 Feb 2008
Posts : 25
Location : Santa Cruz, CA
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:43 am | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | It was indeed worth deffending it because it could have evolved into a socialist nation had Stalin applied the proper policies. |
Stalin was a fascist son of a bitch, therefore would never have a socialist nation. |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:47 am | |
| | themacintrasher wrote: |
Stalin was a fascist son of a bitch, therefore would never have a socialist nation. |
Stalinist totalitarianism isn't quite fascism and after the thaw there was potential for a workers state but the Soviet Union was still too bureaucratic for afterwards.
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themacintrasher
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 16 Feb 2008
Posts : 25
Location : Santa Cruz, CA
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:07 am | |
| | oligarch wrote: | | themacintrasher wrote: |
Stalin was a fascist son of a bitch, therefore would never have a socialist nation. |
Stalinist totalitarianism isn't quite fascism and after the thaw there was potential for a workers state but the Soviet Union was still too bureaucratic for afterwards. |
But......purges........ |
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oligarch
Member of the WR Committee
Joined : 31 Jan 2008
Posts : 1445
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:19 am | |
| | themacintrasher wrote: |
But......purges........ |
Again, Stalinism, not fascism.
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themacintrasher
Pioneer
Age : 15
Joined : 16 Feb 2008
Posts : 25
Location : Santa Cruz, CA
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:16 am | |
| | In any case, this is not an example of an exemplary socialist society. |
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mattabesta
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 997
Joined : 23 Dec 2007
Posts : 2982
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Defence of Stalin's USSR Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:36 am | |
| | themacintrasher wrote: | | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | It was indeed worth deffending it because it could have evolved into a socialist nation had Stalin applied the proper policies. |
Stalin was a fascist son of a bitch, therefore would never have a socialist nation. |
he was a power seaking son of a bitc like all dictators he killed pepole that tretend his claim to power and he was parinoid about attackers. |
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