World Republic Uniting All People!   Home  FAQ  Search  Register  Log in   World Republic :: Republic Square :: Pioneer camp  Open Blue Sky     Goto page :   1, 2, 3 Author Message WhiteWolf Young Pioneer Joined : 06 May 2008 Posts : 12 Location : Somewhere Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Mon May 12, 2008 6:35 am Ouch.... my view on communism... is now very mixed.. And to further defend my perspective... Humans may use logical and rational thinking, but we still feel more comfortable and at ease with our emotions as those are the first things we learn... as newly born infants to a strange and dangerous world.   mononokifool World Republic Party Member Age : 19 Joined : 30 Mar 2008 Posts : 680 Location : Florida Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Mon May 12, 2008 7:35 am Well, what else would you like to know? _________________ http://themarxistyouth.forumotion.com/index.htm   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Mon May 12, 2008 2:13 pm That is the weak point of humans, our emotions. That's why Hercules almost died in the movie because Hades captured that chick he was hitting on and he just HAD to save her. _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   Anarchist.Dagger Experienced Party Member Age : 20 Joined : 04 Apr 2008 Posts : 807 Location : Land of the free, but not me Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Mon May 12, 2008 8:28 pm Quote: its always my fualt. Instead of accepting my argument for what it was, you broke out into a critique of communism. I stand by what i said. WhiteWolf wrote: Ouch.... my view on communism... is now very mixed.. Haha, i wouldn't worry about getting any unified response from the revolutionary left. There are many different ideas and theories on how revolution, transition, and even communism, should be handled. Do not, however, be lead to believe that we are all enemies for our rather small disagreements (as Mattabesta would have you think). We stand united against capitalism, imperialism, oppression, and the like. We simply argue over semantics, as do members of any other political ideology. Quote: Well, what else would you like to know? I think you're in the wrong thread, haha. Quote: And to further defend my perspective... Humans may use logical and rational thinking, but we still feel more comfortable and at ease with our emotions as those are the first things we learn... as newly born infants to a strange and dangerous world. Okay, good. Back to the topic at hand. I can understand this argument, and i do agree that emotion is more enjoyable (love, happiness, etc.), but it also has its downfalls (anger, fear, lonliness, etc.). And when those latter ones i stated kick in, i don't feel very comfortable. I would say that, though we may take more enjoyment from our emotion, and choose to take part in emotional 'activities' (for lack of a better word) over logical ones (even that is a logical decision), we get more practical use from our logic. I mean, just look around, all of our technology, surplus labor, and everything that allows us to live the way we live is thanks to logic, not emotion. _________________ _________________ To abolish exploitation of man by man _________________ ¡Ya Basta! _________________ Formerly NoJustice.NoPeace   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 2:18 am ummmmmmmm surplus labor is kind of a bad thing _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   Anarchist.Dagger Experienced Party Member Age : 20 Joined : 04 Apr 2008 Posts : 807 Location : Land of the free, but not me Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 3:36 am Watermelon wrote: ummmmmmmm surplus labor is kind of a bad thing How so? _________________ _________________ To abolish exploitation of man by man _________________ ¡Ya Basta! _________________ Formerly NoJustice.NoPeace   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 1:42 pm Surplus labor is the labor that workers dont get paid for. Since they are exploited they dont get paid fo r the full value of their labor. The surplus labor is the labor they dont get paid for. _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   Anarchist.Dagger Experienced Party Member Age : 20 Joined : 04 Apr 2008 Posts : 807 Location : Land of the free, but not me Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 9:46 pm Watermelon wrote: Surplus labor is the labor that workers dont get paid for. Since they are exploited they dont get paid fo r the full value of their labor. The surplus labor is the labor they dont get paid for. Yes, in a capitalist society, surplus labor is misused and exploited. But surplus labor does not only exist within the confines of capitalism. What surplus labor actually is is a wonderful thing; it is within capitalism that it is twisted into profit for the capitalists. And, just for my own clarification, you do know what i mean when i say surplus labor, no? I mean that time which creates tools not necessary for survival, but that helps ease the amount of work needed to survive. Anyway, if this sub-topic continues much longer, a split may be in order, i think. _________________ _________________ To abolish exploitation of man by man _________________ ¡Ya Basta! _________________ Formerly NoJustice.NoPeace   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 10:23 pm Oh you are talking about a different kind of surplus labor. I was talking about the surplus labor that Marx talked about. Surplus labor creates surplus value. _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   enviro Member of the WR Committee Age : 902 Joined : 05 Feb 2008 Posts : 1276 Location : bite the power Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Tue May 13, 2008 10:24 pm about that thing you said were emotions are better enjoyed than logic or hwatever. that is why people choose to follow them more. would you aproach love the logical way, or the emotional way. the more enjoyable one would be emotional. also ww if you are mixed about communism.......go green _________________ I know that imprisonment will be harder for me than it has ever been for anyone, filled with cowardly threats and hideous cruelty. But I do not fear prison, as I do not fear the fury of the miserable tyrant who took the lives of 70 of my comrades. Condemn me. It does not matter. History will absolve me."   Anarchist.Dagger Experienced Party Member Age : 20 Joined : 04 Apr 2008 Posts : 807 Location : Land of the free, but not me Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Wed May 14, 2008 4:50 am Watermelon wrote: Oh you are talking about a different kind of surplus labor. I was talking about the surplus labor that Marx talked about. Surplus labor creates surplus value. That's what he said about it in the context of capitalism. Surplus labour, in its essence, is that labour which goes beyond that which is necessary to subsist. Not important, moving on.... Quote: would you aproach love the logical way, or the emotional way. the more enjoyable one would be emotional. Well the logical way would be the way that makes the love (the relationship or whatever else creates the love) persist. Would that not be the most enjoyable? If, however, you were to go about it emotionally, you may find yourself hurt and more likely to end the relationship over trivial problems, or even pretty big problems. If someone cheats and has a valid (bear with me) reason, the logical thing to do would be to fix that problem that created the person's "need" to cheat. If you were emotional about it, you may not be so forgiving, and your love may be lost. _________________ _________________ To abolish exploitation of man by man _________________ ¡Ya Basta! _________________ Formerly NoJustice.NoPeace   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Wed May 14, 2008 1:58 pm No I'm right and I'm 100% sure but it doesn't really matter. _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   enviro Member of the WR Committee Age : 902 Joined : 05 Feb 2008 Posts : 1276 Location : bite the power Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Wed May 14, 2008 10:10 pm i guess the best way to go is neither. with emotion and logic in equal balance. ans you said i never contribute _________________ I know that imprisonment will be harder for me than it has ever been for anyone, filled with cowardly threats and hideous cruelty. But I do not fear prison, as I do not fear the fury of the miserable tyrant who took the lives of 70 of my comrades. Condemn me. It does not matter. History will absolve me."   Watermelon Member of the Supreme Council Age : 997 Joined : 05 Apr 2008 Posts : 2655 Location : Iceland Subject: Re: Open Blue Sky   Thu May 15, 2008 2:54 am I guess the logical thing to say would be all logic and no emotion is the best, but I, like all other humans, am a slave to passion. So i'll agree with enviro's last post. _________________ "The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization" Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990 accept green or die!!! my name is evyindur H haarde   Open Blue Sky     Page 3 of 3 Goto page :   1, 2, 3 Permissions of this forum: You cannot reply to topics in this forum World Republic :: Republic Square :: Pioneer camp World Republic :: Republic Square :: Pioneer camp Free forum | © phpbb | Free forum support | Statistics | Report an abuse | Create your own free blog