politpro

**revolution** · Subject: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:15 am

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

2. What's your understanding of Communism?

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless society where things are owned in common that has developed after many years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

3. What's your understanding of Capitalism?

A system in which anything can be bought and sold, exploitation is rampant, as pigs try to milk the common man for everything he has.

4. What's your understanding of Fascism?

Highly authoritative form of government with highly militaristic and nationalistic elements, the government usually tries to keep a tight lid on it's citizens with secret police. Racism and intolerance are also typical characteristics.

5. Make a list of the all human rights you consider essential

Free Speech
Free healthcare
Freedom to do what you want within reason
fair wages
freedom to be who you choose to be
freedom of religion
free thought

6. What's your understanding of Freedom?

When people are in control of theirselves and can do whatever they choose to do.

7. What's your understanding of Equality?

Everyone is equal, no one is treated different because of their color, orientation, faith, financial status, opinion, etc.

8. What's your understanding of a prosperous society?

One in which everyone has a chance to become something and everyone can work productively to achieve common goals without having to worry about being kicked out on the street, and no one has to break their back.

9. What's your stance towards the environment?
The environment is important and people should start doing more to preserve it.

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**Liche** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:35 am

Quote:

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless
society where things are owned in common that has developed after many
years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

thats utopian ideology...not communism.

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:59 am

revolution wrote:

2. What's your understanding of Communism?

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless society where things are owned in common that has developed after many years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

Well, not everything is owned in common. There are things that may be privately owned permanently (clothing, PCs, games, bed, etc.) and others conditionally (housing in proportion to your needs according to democratically determined standards)

revolution wrote:

5. Make a list of the all human rights you consider essential

Free Speech
Free healthcare
Freedom to do what you want within reason
fair wages
freedom to be who you choose to be
freedom of religion
free thought

How can wages be fair?

revolution wrote:

6. What's your understanding of Freedom?

When people are in control of theirselves and can do whatever they choose to do.

Isn't "being in control of themselves" a bit too ambiguous?

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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:11 am

Liche wrote:

Quote:

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless
society where things are owned in common that has developed after many
years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

thats utopian ideology...not communism.

Utopian theory of communism.

_________________
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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:14 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Well, not everything is owned in common. There are things that may be privately owned permanently (clothing, PCs, games, bed, etc.) and others conditionally (housing in proportion to your needs according to democratically determined standards)

That's what I meant, maybe I was a bit vague.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

How can wages be fair?

A decent amount.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Isn't "being in control of themselves" a bit too ambiguous?

Why?

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**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:17 am

revolution wrote:

A decent amount.

What is a decent ammount? Why is that fair?

revolution wrote:

Why?

Because a serial murderer or a rapist can completely be in control of themselves.

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**Stos** · New Party Member Posts: 545 Join date: 2008-09-14

revolution wrote:

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

Democracy doesn't mean what you think it means.

Quote:

2. What's your understanding of Communism?

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless society where things are owned in common that has developed after many years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

Socialism and communism are synonyms, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at there. Also, I like having my own mp3 player, if that's alright with you.

Quote:

fair wages

"Instead of the conservative motto, 'A fair day's wages for a fair day's work!', they ought to inscribe on their banner the revolutionary watchword, 'Abolition of the wage system!'"

Quote:

7. What's your understanding of Equality?

Everyone is equal, no one is treated different because of their color, orientation, faith, financial status, opinion, etc.

Well, of course they wouldn't, because apparently they would be the exact same colour, orientation, faith, etc.

**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:23 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

revolution wrote:

A decent amount.

What is a decent ammount? Why is that fair?

A reasonable amount that is enough to get what you need to get.

revolution wrote:

Why?

Because a serial murderer or a rapist can completely be in control of themselves.

That's not what I meant.

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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:26 pm

Stos wrote:

revolution wrote:

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

Democracy doesn't mean what you think it means.

Why's that?

Quote:

2. What's your understanding of Communism?

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless society where things are owned in common that has developed after many years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

Socialism and communism are synonyms, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at there. Also, I like having my own mp3 player, if that's alright with you.

I'm not going into this.

Quote:

fair wages

"Instead of the conservative motto, 'A fair day's wages for a fair day's work!', they ought to inscribe on their banner the revolutionary watchword, 'Abolition of the wage system!'"

I'm speaking of the stage before wages are abolished.

Quote:

7. What's your understanding of Equality?

Everyone is equal, no one is treated different because of their color, orientation, faith, financial status, opinion, etc.

Well, of course they wouldn't, because apparently they would be the exact same colour, orientation, faith, etc.

No they wouldn't.

_________________
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**Stos** · New Party Member Posts: 545 Join date: 2008-09-14

revolution wrote:

Stos wrote:

revolution wrote:

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

Democracy doesn't mean what you think it means.

Why's that?

Quote:

2. What's your understanding of Communism?

A peaceful, stateless, classless, moneyless society where things are owned in common that has developed after many years of socialism, after the government has finally withered away.

Socialism and communism are synonyms, so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at there. Also, I like having my own mp3 player, if that's alright with you.

I'm not going into this.

Quote:

fair wages

"Instead of the conservative motto, 'A fair day's wages for a fair day's work!', they ought to inscribe on their banner the revolutionary watchword, 'Abolition of the wage system!'"

I'm speaking of the stage before wages are abolished.

Quote:

7. What's your understanding of Equality?

Everyone is equal, no one is treated different because of their color, orientation, faith, financial status, opinion, etc.

Well, of course they wouldn't, because apparently they would be the exact same colour, orientation, faith, etc.

No they wouldn't.

So how exactly do you mean 'equal'?

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:30 pm

revolution wrote:

A reasonable amount that is enough to get what you need to get.

So a condition in which a man owns a factory, has 50 workers and earns 50 times more than any of them but all of them earn a large enough ammount of money to suffice their needs is fair in your perspective?

revolution wrote:

That's not what I meant.

I was saying you were a bit ambiguous by saying "people that control themselves". Since people can control themselves and still commit things like rape and murder, why is selfcontrol an important requirement for freedom?

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**Stos** · New Party Member Posts: 545 Join date: 2008-09-14

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

revolution wrote:

A reasonable amount that is enough to get what you need to get.

So a condition in which a man owns a factory, has 50 workers and earns 50 times more than any of them but all of them earn a large enough ammount of money to suffice their needs is fair in your perspective?

revolution wrote:

That's not what I meant.

I was saying you were a bit ambiguous by saying "people that control themselves". Since people can control themselves and still commit things like rape and murder, why is selfcontrol an important requirement for freedom?

Ah, but in rape and murder the other people don't have control of theirselves. Very Happy

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:58 pm

Stos wrote:

Ah, but in rape and murder the other people don't have control of theirselves. Very Happy

Good point, very good point actually Razz

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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:56 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

revolution wrote:

A reasonable amount that is enough to get what you need to get.

So a condition in which a man owns a factory, has 50 workers and earns 50 times more than any of them but all of them earn a large enough ammount of money to suffice their needs is fair in your perspective?

No one is ridiculously overpaid, wages are more equal.

revolution wrote:

That's not what I meant.

I was saying you were a bit ambiguous by saying "people that control themselves". Since people can control themselves and still commit things like rape and murder, why is selfcontrol an important requirement for freedom?

I meant in control of themselves, their lives are not controlled by the corporations or government. No one says, "You have to dress this way", or "You have to act like that".

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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:57 pm

Stos wrote:

So how exactly do you mean 'equal'?

Different, but equal.

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**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:26 pm

revolution wrote:

ZK wrote:

So a condition in which a man owns a factory, has 50 workers and earns 50 times more than any of them but all of them earn a large enough ammount of money to suffice their needs is fair in your perspective?

No one is ridiculously overpaid, wages are more equal.

So, is it a fair condition?

revolution wrote:

I meant in control of themselves, their lives are not controlled by the corporations or government. No one says, "You have to dress this way", or "You have to act like that".

That's much better.

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**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:52 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

So, is it a fair condition?

It depends on how you look at it.

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**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: politpro Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:15 am

revolution wrote:

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

So, is it a fair condition?

It depends on how you look at it.

So how do you look at it?

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**Black_Cross** · Subject: Re: politpro Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:54 pm

revolution wrote:

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

I have an idea. Let's stop calling the US a democracy (to any slightly perceptive student of history, it's obviously not), and stop perpetuating that devilish lie (that told enough times, becomes truth to the minds of the less astute), and maybe the illusion will finally die.

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"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--

**revolution** · Subject: Re: politpro Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:00 pm

Black_Cross wrote:

revolution wrote:

1. What's your understanding of Democracy?

A government in which people are able to elect leaders and make their own choices, democracies are often full of corruption, ex. U.S.

I have an idea. Let's stop calling the US a democracy (to any slightly perceptive student of history, it's obviously not), and stop perpetuating that devilish lie (that told enough times, becomes truth to the minds of the less astute), and maybe the illusion will finally die.

I can't think of the right word for it...would plutocracy be more accurate?

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