Centrism (Come hither Jesus)

**Black_Cross** · Subject: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:27 pm

We were talkin about this in the chat, and i wanted to see if Jesus could make sense of the ideology that is Centrism.

Jesus, if you would, please explain.

(Oh, and if it turns out that Jesus is not centrist, someone can just trash this thread)

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"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--

**Hutin** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:55 am

Centrism actually allows you to do and say everything. Wich is good if the leader is not Jesus, or Liche.

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Communism cannot be fully understood by someone who has no love for someone else.

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:07 pm

Hutin wrote:

Centrism actually allows you to do and say everything.

Not at all.

Yes you can say everythign that's called free speech.
Allow everything?
Uhh.. no there are rules.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Hutin** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:37 pm

Like ? Plus there is no rule you can't break.

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Communism cannot be fully understood by someone who has no love for someone else.

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:19 pm

Hutin wrote:

Like ?

I think just the normal basic once, don't steal, murder, rape etc.
And all that shit.

Hutin wrote:

Plus there is no rule you can't break

Yea, but in all our countries there are rules people can't break and some of them are doing well, but like any country you got some assholes ruining that. Its not when you got centreism everythign will be like a utopia.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Liche** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:28 am

the Swedish Pirate Party is a centrist party.

**Riddler** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:12 am

Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it's something in between. Highly instable state, I think.

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**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:15 am

[quote=\"Riddler\"]Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it\'s something in between. Highly instable state, I think.[/quote]

How can you have something as in between two completely opposite things?

How can you have mild emptiness?

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**Riddler** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:19 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Riddler wrote:

Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it's something in between. Highly instable state, I think.

How can you have something as in between two completely opposite things?

How can you have mild emptiness?

Well, a centist is someone who is a socialist, but accepts some elements of capitalism (or the opposite). And denies the radical things. Basically, it's the social-democrate.

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**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:24 am

Riddler wrote:

Well, a centist is someone who is a socialist, but accepts some elements of capitalism (or the opposite). And denies the radical things. Basically, it's the social-democrate.

In a capitalist framework, left, center and right are just the tendencies of how socially focused is the capitalist economy. The closer to left the more socially focused it is the closer to right the more individual-profit oriented economy is.

However left capitalism (social capitalism, welfare capitalism) is not communism (or socialism if you\'re not familiarized with the semantics of this word from a non-Leninist perspective). Socialism is commonly mistuderstood, mainly in USA, as \"welfare\" and in general it is misunderstood as welfare or social capitalism. Both are false notions.

Socialism cannot be mixed with capitalism; the existance of one opposes the other. Hence, capitalism can't have socialist elements nor socialism can have capitalist elements.

Socialism implies the complete control of the economy directly by the workers to suffice needs determined by themselves in ways determined by themselves as well. No wages, no exploitation, no economic alienation. Capitalism implies individuals or groups of them controlling the entire economy by having groups of workers producing goods that will be sold to them for profit these goods having a higher value than their wages. The owner of the means of production, the exploiter, will profit from the suprplus value provided by each worker.

Irreconciable systems.

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**Riddler** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:30 am

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

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**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:09 pm

Riddler wrote:

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

I think that's pretty much social-democrat, not sure though.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Black_Cross** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:11 pm

Riddler wrote:

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

For me to respond to those specific cases would require more information, but i think i can make clear the problem here. There will always be elements of communism or socialism (if you want to call it that) because human beings have to employ mutual aid and support in order to live like we do. So a State can introduce welfare and claim it's socialist, but the two systems simply cannot mix, given the fact that socialism implies a society bereft of private property and the State.

_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:14 pm

centrism is somethng new, its like a black hole, everybody slowly gets suck into it, even the farest left and right.

**Rojo** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:33 am

Centrism is liberalism

Give just enough to the people so they live ok
Give the rest to banks, Multinational corporations, friends in power, their pockets somehow

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:05 am

No, Center means that you basically don't make a decision based on your party's line (Like right, would always take rightish decisions) but take the one most adapted to the situation. Basically means that you don't have a fixed opinion, always changing, adapting, evolving for the best. Of course extremes like Fachism and Communism are excluded.

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An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:56 am

Jesus wrote:

No, Center means that you basically don't make a decision based on your party's line (Like right, would always take rightish decisions) but take the one most adapted to the situation. Basically means that you don't have a fixed opinion, always changing, adapting, evolving for the best. Of course extremes like Fachism and Communism are excluded.

So in other words it means you don't have a political agenda, that is, according to you.

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**Jesus** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:39 pm

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:55 pm

Jesus wrote:

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

I guess you're talking about communism since that's your example of "extreme left" (without the least base of course).

In communism workers take all the decisions and change them at will, so what's the point of your proposal?

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**Jesus** · Subject: Re: Centrism (Come hither Jesus) Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:00 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

I guess you're talking about communism since that's your example of "extreme left" (without the least base of course).

In communism workers take all the decisions and change them at will, so what's the point of your proposal?

Yes but they wont turn theyr economy into capitalism to increase the value of theyr economy (for whatever reason at that moment),. Because they will want to stick to communist values, i love how you can't find out anything on your own.

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17