china needs labour unions!

**Tyrlop** · Subject: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:10 pm

china needs labour unions now!
what do you think?

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:20 pm

Good luck china.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:42 pm

Oh fuck you, if they do get that, it will fuck the world economy in the ass.

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**Black_Cross** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:13 pm

Jesus wrote:

Oh fuck you, if they do get that, it will fuck the world economy in the ass.

Good -- Crises precipitates change. And no, fuck you for thinking the chinese should be enslaved so that you can have your nikes the way you like 'em... expensive.

Quote:

china needs labour unions now!

It would certainly promote solidarity and collectivity, but i would hope that wouldn't be the end of the organizing.

_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--

**Tyrong Kojy** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:19 pm

Here's a better one.

"China needa a new government, now!"

_________________
"Jenaveve took everything from me.
My friends,
My family,
Everything!
Her ambitions to dominate the universe are terrifying,
Evil beyond imagining.
I,
Tyrong Kojy,
The one whose power even the creator fears,
Will stop her.
Even if I have to destroy the universe to do it!"
Tyrong Kojy/Jenaveve by Nicholas Rivest

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:34 pm

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Here's a better one.

"China needa a new government, now!"

impossible, its fascist state u know. labour unions are better, since they cant be corrupted

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:36 pm

Tyrlop wrote:

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Here's a better one.

"China needa a new government, now!"

impossible, its fascist state u know. labour unions are better, since they cant be corrupted

So you prefer labour unions over a government? Lol join anarchists or Anarcho-Syndicalist geek

.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:42 pm

Black_Cross wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Oh fuck you, if they do get that, it will fuck the world economy in the ass.

Good -- Crises precipitates change. And no, fuck you for thinking the chinese should be enslaved so that you can have your nikes the way you like 'em... expensive.

Hmmm ??! Only said it would fuck the economy, never said i wore Nikes or bought a shitload of products from China...

Quote:

china needs labour unions now!

It would certainly promote solidarity and collectivity, but i would hope that wouldn't be the end of the organizing.

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**WeiWuWei** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:19 pm

CoolKidX wrote:

Tyrlop wrote:

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Here's a better one.

"China needa a new government, now!"

impossible, its fascist state u know. labour unions are better, since they cant be corrupted

So you prefer labour unions over a government? Lol join anarchists or Anarcho-Syndicalist geek

.

I would very gladly have Tyrlop join our fine group! Smile

Anyway, as for the topic of labor unions, I'd have to say it's not just China who needs labor unions, but all countries do, especially those of the developing world. Industrialized countries have gotten to the point that its labor works in physically safer conditions - though, admittedly, not in the political and economic conditions that we Socialists would like them to be - but the developing world doesn't have that kind of luxury. The institutionalization of labor unions would force these developing governments to pay attention to - and, more importantly, legislate in the name of - interests concerning workers. The hope, then, would be that development would not necessarily have to coupled with the exploitation of labor - which, historically, it always has been; in fact, Marxism kind of hinges upon the truth of that claim.

So does China need labor unions? Of course. As does every other country on the face of the Earth.

I'm scared for China, though; their leaders are revolutionary in name, but are truly reactionary to the core. And that's the worst kind of reaction: the kind that hides itself under the cloak of working-class interests. It's disgusting. They should just admit to themselves that their ideology isn't based upon Marxism but is really a kind of Market Authhoritarianism.

_________________

**revolution** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:43 pm

WeiWuWei wrote:

their leaders are revolutionary in name, but are truly reactionary to the core. And that's the worst kind of reaction: the kind that hides itself under the cloak of working-class interests. It's disgusting. They should just admit to themselves that their ideology isn't based upon Marxism but is really a kind of Market Authhoritarianism.

This man speaks the truth.

_________________
hack the planet

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:36 am

Again I'd have to agree a lot with BC and WeiWuWei, with Wei specially on the assertion that organizing shouldn't stop there as I see labour unions as just first steps for a healthy economy for a healthy community require much more than that.

Jesus... what's economy? Hmmm? The capability of enterprises to exploit workers for profit?

_________________

**Tyrong Kojy** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:41 am

Labour unions can't be corrupted? What the fuck? Yes they can, my cousin's husband's lost a lot of benifits to the greed of the union's leaders. And it's not a deal to keep the company afloat, either, it's jsut greed. They sure as hell can be corrupted.

_________________
"Jenaveve took everything from me.
My friends,
My family,
Everything!
Her ambitions to dominate the universe are terrifying,
Evil beyond imagining.
I,
Tyrong Kojy,
The one whose power even the creator fears,
Will stop her.
Even if I have to destroy the universe to do it!"
Tyrong Kojy/Jenaveve by Nicholas Rivest

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:46 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Again I'd have to agree a lot with BC and WeiWuWei, with Wei specially on the assertion that organizing shouldn't stop there as I see labour unions as just first steps for a healthy economy for a healthy community require much more than that.

Jesus... what's economy? Hmmm? The capability of enterprises to exploit workers for profit?

Yep, unless we get out of this hole, we can't change to nothing anyway. So yeah, that's probably good, but not really the moment.

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**WeiWuWei** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:50 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Labour unions can't be corrupted? What the fuck? Yes they can, my cousin's husband's lost a lot of benifits to the greed of the union's leaders. And it's not a deal to keep the company afloat, either, it's jsut greed. They sure as hell can be corrupted.

I definitely do agree with this. After studying a bit of the history of American labor, you'd find that a lot of these movements were tied with some rather unsavory groups - the mob, specifically. But I don't think we should be against them entirely - granted, I know you're not saying that - because I think that the ones that do good make up a very important aspect of civil society. Labor issues don't deserve to be swept under the rug; they deserve organizations like unions to represent them.

So are they all virtuous and are they all concerned about working-class interests? Well, no. But I think that the ones that are concerned about such things are worth fighting for - and, by and large, I think most labor unions fall into the latter of these two categories.

_________________

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:52 am

Jesus wrote:

Yep, unless we get out of this hole, we can't change to nothing anyway. So yeah, that's probably good, but not really the moment.

He he he he , that was some funny reply.

How do you think we're supposed to get out of this hole?

_________________

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:44 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Yep, unless we get out of this hole, we can't change to nothing anyway. So yeah, that's probably good, but not really the moment.

He he he he , that was some funny reply.

How do you think we're supposed to get out of this hole?

Cutting the salaries of the employees, simple!

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17

**MightyObserver** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:37 am

Jesus wrote:

Oh fuck you, if they do get that, it will fuck the world economy in the ass.

Jesus wrote:

Yep, unless we get out of this hole, we can't change to nothing anyway. So yeah, that's probably good, but not really the moment.

Jesus wrote:

Cutting the salaries of the employees, simple!

I'm never completely sure if I should take you seriously.

_________________
"I'm just saying, if we want the world to improve, evil plots, villains, henchmen may be our only hope." - Dr. Horrible, Moist: Humidity Rising

LINK

**Black_Cross** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Labour unions can't be corrupted? What the fuck? Yes they can, my cousin's husband's lost a lot of benifits to the greed of the union's leaders. And it's not a deal to keep the company afloat, either, it's jsut greed. They sure as hell can be corrupted.

Indeed, and it's not even that difficult to corrupt it. A lot of unions, if you take the time to look at its stratification, look suspiciously like corporations in the way they are organized and run. The president (i rest my case) of my state representation of UFCW is always lookin' prim and proper, tryin' to tell me that we're "union brothers". I shoulda told him to fuck off, but i didn't want to kill the mood of that particular meeting.

_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:37 pm

Jesus wrote:

Cutting the salaries of the employees, simple!

... you make having a serious and/or intelligent discussion with you a hell of a challenge.

_________________

**Jesus** · Subject: Re: china needs labour unions! Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:22 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Cutting the salaries of the employees, simple!

... you make having a serious and/or intelligent discussion with you a hell of a challenge.

It was called sarcasm.

But yeah, in some cases it could be the solution, some jobs in North America are really overpaid for simple task. Like in some case you get paid double time during your vacations, kind of retarded.

_________________
An I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you
- Ezekial 25:17