Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:20 pm

WARNING VERY STRONG PICTURES

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:45 pm

It sounds like "The west did it to!"

So?

Does that make it right for the Soviets to do it?

And I find it funny when it says "Look what the civilised west did" and then showing Germany in WW2 1941-1945 showing probably Jewish death camps, wait didnt other Western countries fought with Germany? Yea we did, and after that war we free'd the death camps so the civilsed west free'd remaining prisorners from death camps in Germany, that shows that, Germany isnt really civilsed, but yet again "Look what the civilised West did" doesn't talk for all the West. And it doesnt mean that the gulags are ok all of a sudden.

And yea not that many were political prisorners, but its bad when you even have political prisorners.

And then it says that the most were murders,thiefs,rapists etc.
And what I find funny is that "In the gulag you could only stay 10years"

Bull shit out of my ass.
Eufrosinia Kersnovskaya, stayed 12 years in the gulags.
Why was she there?
Well she was forced to work in Siberia as a logger but she tried to escape, she got the gulag for that.
She deserved that! She should get the death penailty-sarcasm-

Anyways, yet still many died in the gulags and because its less then what people think its still fucking bad and doesnt make it good.

This one is quite funny aswell
"It turns out that the most free and democratic state ..."

Haha the vid says that the fucking US is the most democratic and free state lmfao.

And then they compare the gulags with a prison from the motherfucking 19th century.

So yeah this vid is filled with lies, dumb bull-shit, but atleast it shows a little truth, like the real numbers not the made up ones.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:05 pm

CoolKidX wrote:

It sounds like "The west did it to!"

So?

Does that make it right for the Soviets to do it?

No, it's more like an accusation of Hiprocrisy. One of the main arguements against USSR is precisely this.

It pretty much goes like this:

West: I am good, you USSR are bad. Having millions of prisoners is bad.
USSR: You also have millions of prisoners, then you're also bad.

As simple as that.

No one is saying it makes it good or acceptable. I, as a communist, find the whole concept of prison systems and punishment absolutely ludicrous as it solves absolutely nothing and actually is prone to create more problems and perhaps even worsen the already existing ones. The roots of criminality? They're still there, prison and execution won't solve them.

CoolKidX wrote:

And I find it funny when it says "Look what the civilised west did" and then showing Germany in WW2 1941-1945 showing probably Jewish death camps, wait didnt other Western countries fought with Germany? Yea we did, and after that war we free'd the death camps so the civilsed west free'd remaining prisorners from death camps in Germany, that shows that, Germany isnt really civilsed, but yet again "Look what the civilised West did" doesn't talk for all the West. And it doesnt mean that the gulags are ok all of a sudden.

Germany is part of the west, Italy, also part of the west cooperated with Germany in the Holocaust. France, also part of the west had the Vichy government stablished which also cooperated with the nazis.

Either way, again, it's a protest against Western hipocrisy and defamatory tactics. They criticize USSR like they didn't do anything and like their countries were beacons of freedom, human rights and beauty when it's absolutely not true.

Also, it's stupid to blame an entire people on the actions of the government, however, and this is one of the problems with the West, is that people seem far more consenting of the practices of their government than the Soviet people could have been of the practices of its government.

CoolKidX wrote:

And yea not that many were political prisorners, but its bad when you even have political prisorners.

Well west, specially USA, is famous for political repression. Red Scare rings a bell?

CoolKidX wrote:

And then it says that the most were murders,thiefs,rapists etc.
And what I find funny is that "In the gulag you could only stay 10years"

Bull shit out of my ass.
Eufrosinia Kersnovskaya, stayed 12 years in the gulags.
Why was she there?
Well she was forced to work in Siberia as a logger but she tried to escape, she got the gulag for that.
She deserved that! She should get the death penailty-sarcasm-

Well you're not making a great case against the video here CKX. You'ree trying to argue that they were not condemned for just 10 years but rather had to stay more.

Then you bring the example of someone who within her own sentence commited an infraction and stayed longer... makes sense within any legal system employing such a scheme. If a guy commited infractions several times within the Gulag I'd expect that person to stay even for perhaps 30 years.

CoolKidX wrote:

Anyways, yet still many died in the gulags and because its less then what people think its still fucking bad and doesnt make it good.

I could argue here that the gulag is far better than prisons given it allows both sex interactions. It's also in the open air, in the nature, which is beautiful and natural. Else it may intrinsicly kill you which is far better than 50 years of Bubba raping you in the showers almost forgeting how the sky looks like.

Again, though, the concept of prison and punishment for crimes is idiotic as hell.

CKX wrote:

This one is quite funny aswell
"It turns out that the most free and democratic state ..."

Haha the vid says that the fucking US is the most democratic and free state lmfao.

It's quoting USA's selfproclaimed condition as the beacon of Democracy.

CKX wrote:

And then they compare the gulags with a prison from the motherfucking 19th century.

So?

CKX wrote:

So yeah this vid is filled with lies, dumb bull-shit, but atleast it shows a little truth, like the real numbers not the made up ones.

Let's get to a consensus based on my counterarguements.

_________________

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:33 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Also, it's stupid to blame an entire people on the actions of the government

I agree.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Well west, specially USA, is famous for political repression. Red Scare rings a bell?

Touche.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Well you're not making a great case against the video here CKX. You'ree trying to argue that they were not condemned for just 10 years but rather had to stay more.

Then you bring the example of someone who within her own sentence commited an infraction and stayed longer... makes sense within any legal system employing such a scheme. If a guy commited infractions several times within the Gulag I'd expect that person to stay even for perhaps 30 years.

No you dont get it, she didnt did anything in the gulag.
But it seems some how weird to me that rapists and murdereds get max.10 years and some one who tried to escape forced labour gets 12 years.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

I could argue here that the gulag is far better than prisons given it allows both sex interactions. It's also in the open air, in the nature, which is beautiful and natural. Else it may intrinsicly kill you which is far better than 50 years of Bubba raping you in the showers almost forgeting how the sky looks like.

Again, though, the concept of prison and punishment for crimes is idiotic as hell.

Well the open air thing is more of a opnion. But its better then rape(oh noes) in the shower, never drop your soap, never.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

It's quoting USA's selfproclaimed condition as the beacon of Democracy.

Well not really there isnt any "'s on the sentance, but both you and me couldnt know that, if the guy is quoting America.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

So?

Times change, I mean would you compare a thief in Roman Age with a thief in this age? The thief in the Roman Age would his arm sliced off.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:11 pm

WHAT THE FUCK THIS VIDEO HAS BEEN REMOVED

i found another place

**Liche** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:25 pm

Vichy is more like run by the Nazis. As is the Polish police.

Longstory shortm both were bad. Neither was worse.

Both had there decent and terrible points.

**Tyrlop** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:20 pm

the video has been taken down again or at least it is missing. but it was uploaded again by a third person:

i also found this video

**Liche** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:21 pm

lol
maybe change the name I would never gulag any thing called the Truth. The first step would be changing something called thats name. Like The Watergate Conspiracy.

**alexCCCP-RUS-54321** · Subject: Re: Gulag Farytales - The thruth of gulag Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:19 am

If the WEST does something taht is considred ok- it DOES make it right for other countries to do the same and be ok. if the West made something wrong and, it wouldn'r be right for others o do it too.

And also, many countries in teh west ahve had death camps too- its just being hyprocritcial.