Mikhail Gorbachyov

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:28 am

mattabesta wrote:

it being closed WAS the problem

On which grounds? USSR having a capitalist economy was the problem. USSR having a contradictory system was the problem.

**revolution** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:05 pm

He tried to save the U.S.S.R. and make peace, so he's good in my book.

_________________
hack the planet

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:33 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

it being closed WAS the problem

On which grounds? USSR having a capitalist economy was the problem. USSR having a contradictory system was the problem.

the ussr trying to keep upp the arms race was the probleme an econamy will colapse when you uses 30% of the states(in this case the cuntryes)
income on armed forces. the econamies didn't get worse the only thing that happend is that westren media and the buisness world was allowed to see what was really going down.

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:16 am

revolution wrote:

He tried to save the U.S.S.R. and make peace, so he's good in my book.

In which way do his actions that catalysed USSR's collapse qualify as trying to save the USSR?

mattabesta wrote:

the ussr trying to keep upp the arms race was the probleme an econamy will colapse when you uses 30% of the states(in this case the cuntryes)
income on armed forces.

It was actually 40% of all the budget, and no, that was not the main problem, the main problem is that USSR had actually a budget when ut should have employed a communist economic system.

mattabesta wrote:

the econamies didn't get worse the only thing that happend is that westren media and the buisness world was allowed to see what was really going down.

If your capitalist economy is not going well and you invite more succesful capitalist economies to participate in your nation they'll eventually f**k up the remainder of your capitalist economy.

**revolution** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:25 am

Didn't kill anyone, good. Reformed economy, good. Germany revolted, bad.

_________________
hack the planet

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:36 am

revolution wrote:

Didn't kill anyone, good. Reformed economy, good. Germany revolted, bad.

Sorry but that's an excesively simple way to see it.

His economical reforms brought a greater crisis to USSR, too evident to be ignored.

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:55 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

revolution wrote:

He tried to save the U.S.S.R. and make peace, so he's good in my book.

In which way do his actions that catalysed USSR's collapse qualify as trying to save the USSR?

mattabesta wrote:

the ussr trying to keep upp the arms race was the probleme an econamy will colapse when you uses 30% of the states(in this case the cuntryes)
income on armed forces.

It was actually 40% of all the budget, and no, that was not the main problem, the main problem is that USSR had actually a budget when ut should have employed a communist economic system.

mattabesta wrote:

the econamies didn't get worse the only thing that happend is that westren media and the buisness world was allowed to see what was really going down.

If your capitalist economy is not going well and you invite more succesful capitalist economies to participate in your nation they'll eventually fukk up the remainder of your capitalist economy.

why the f**k should better cuntries f**k up yours????
they just want to make money so they eemploy the unemployed wuich wun't hae had any jobs ANYWAY and bring moar cash to the ppl and let's them spend on stuff like consumere goods wich creates moar jobs for ppl and they balso spen moar money and moar till something interweens like inflation and cools it down.

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:53 pm

mattabesta wrote:

why the f**k should better cuntries f**k up yours????

Which better countries? I'm talking about more succesful capitalist economies.

mattabesta wrote:

so they eemploy the unemployed wuich wun't hae had any jobs ANYWAY and bring moar cash to the ppl and let's them spend on stuff like consumere goods wich creates moar jobs for ppl and they balso spen moar money and moar till something interweens like inflation and cools it down.

A more developed capitalist economy will eventually crush a less developed capitalist economy within a given country putting the later in disadvantage with the 1st by giving consesions to it.

USSR's conditions didn't improve with Gorbachyov's reforms, USSR entred the final phase of its catastrophe. Russia is not in better conditions than USSR, specially from a social perspective which is the most important.

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:13 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

why the f**k should better cuntries f**k up yours????

Which better countries? I'm talking about more succesful capitalist economies.

mattabesta wrote:

so they eemploy the unemployed wuich wun't hae had any jobs ANYWAY and bring moar cash to the ppl and let's them spend on stuff like consumere goods wich creates moar jobs for ppl and they balso spen moar money and moar till something interweens like inflation and cools it down.

A more developed capitalist economy will eventually crush a less developed capitalist economy within a given country putting the later in disadvantage with the 1st by giving consesions to it.

USSR's conditions didn't improve with Gorbachyov's reforms, USSR entred the final phase of its catastrophe. Russia is not in better conditions than USSR, specially from a social perspective which is the most important.

so china is being chrished by the us and the rest of the world?

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:48 am

mattabesta wrote:

so china is being chrished by the us and the rest of the world?

Chinese capitalism is not unsuccesful AT ALL. They know how to strategically use state control as a tool to make their capitalism effective.

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:00 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

so china is being chrished by the us and the rest of the world?

Chinese capitalism is not unsuccesful AT ALL. They know how to strategically use state control as a tool to make their capitalism effective.

so duble digit growth is BAD?

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:13 pm

mattabesta wrote:

so duble digit growth is BAD?

From a communist point of view, the fact that your nations "growth" is measured that way is bad.

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:43 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

so duble digit growth is BAD?

From a communist point of view, the fact that your nations "growth" is measured that way is bad.

but pepole are finally getting out of povret and getting better lifes so that's bad for communist cuntries?

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:20 pm

mattabesta wrote:

but pepole are finally getting out of povret and getting better lifes so that's bad for communist cuntries?

Being "better" a superlative of "good" they'd have to be having good lives, yet, within this system from a communist perspective any kind of life style is not good due to the framework.

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:49 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

but pepole are finally getting out of povret and getting better lifes so that's bad for communist cuntries?

Being "better" a superlative of "good" they'd have to be having good lives, yet, within this system from a communist perspective any kind of life style is not good due to the framework.

so they can't have a good life if it isn't a communist one?

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:10 am

mattabesta wrote:

so they can't have a good life if it isn't a communist one?

From a communist perspective, that's right.

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:14 pm

Zealut u dont got a good life?

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn

**mattabesta** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:25 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

so they can't have a good life if it isn't a communist one?

From a communist perspective, that's right.

your an evil person you would wrathere want pepole to live in povrety than a good lifethat's just evil.

_________________
stos wrote:
I'm with the left commies on this one.

I'm not back I'm just bored to death.

''Any society that would give up a little liberty, to gain a little security, will deserve neither and lose both.'' - Benjamin Franklin

**Zealot_Kommunizma** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:43 pm

CoolKidX wrote:

Zealut u dont got a good life?

No, I haven't got a good life. I can't work freely because I need to make money, my work should be for profit not to help society, I can't stroll freely in the street without fear some mutherfucker will come and kill me for 10USD, without watching people starving on the street, without being in a fucking hostile environment the whole fucking time. I hate this way of living, I simply hate it. I can't trust that girls are not money-sucking bitches, everything turns around the fucking money, capitalist profit and interests in others. Life is stupid, unpleasant that way. At least for someone like me who loves everything in this life but money.

mattabesta wrote:

your an evil person you would wrathere want pepole to live in povrety than a good lifethat's just evil.

You don't have a fucking clue on what poverty is, don't speak about it, you haven't even seen it.

I want everyone to have a decent life, I want people to get along together, I want mutual assistance not mutual exploitation. I want peace and real freedom. I want real democracy. I want money to stop existing.

You can't define what's good or bad, those are relative terms, subjective terms. What's good for you is not good for me and what's good for me is not good for you.

Those who agree with my concept of good will fight along my side and those who agree with your concept of good will fight alongside yours. And in the end the concept most agree with will prevail. As simple as that.

For me freedom is not to be able to buy 4 TVs, 2 cars and 10 houses. For me freedom is tranquility, love, friendship, health, work, love for our surroundings and our society. That's real freedom for me. If your freedom is the first I got to crush it to have mine. And if to get my freedom I have to crush yours... WITH PLEASURE I WILL!

**CoolKidX** · Subject: Re: Mikhail Gorbachyov Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:53 pm

But Zealut...hmm yea, u live in Mexico things arnt rlly..."good" there, u got some rich ppl there to , don't take it as an insult.

_________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers."--Jose Narosky

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities; an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties." --Reginald Mansell

Eazy-er Said Than Dunn