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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
|  Subject: Re: Morals - Why?  Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:45 pm | |
| | Quote: | | But this requires a transitional period. |
So you agree?
Bourgeois ideology is the ideology of greed, violence, racism, religion, etc. Communist society can not survive with these kind of thoughts in people's minds.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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Anarchist.Dagger
Experienced Party Member
Age : 20
Joined : 04 Apr 2008
Posts : 850
Location : Land of the free, but not me
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:00 pm | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Quote: | | But this requires a transitional period. |
So you agree? |
Erm, no. I wasn't agreeing so much as making a point that this ideology won't just vanish. I was using your ideologies way of thinking in this regard.
| Quote: | | Bourgeois ideology is the ideology of greed, violence, racism, religion, etc. Communist society can not survive with these kind of thoughts in people's minds. |
Care to share why you believe that?
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Youth is revolutionary |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:02 pm | |
| Greed meance you can't have communist economy. Violence means you cant have no staydt.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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Anarchist.Dagger
Experienced Party Member
Age : 20
Joined : 04 Apr 2008
Posts : 850
Location : Land of the free, but not me
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:18 pm | |
| | Pannekoek wrote: | | Greed meance you can't have communist economy. |
That's not an answer as to why you can't have a communist society, but an ideal communist society. If a political revolution comes before a social revolution, then, as history has shown, it can only be/become bourgeois.
| Quote: | | Violence means you cant have no staydt. |
Try and spell that last word one more time.
_________________
Youth is revolutionary |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:32 pm | |
| Communist society is necessarily ideal. Unideal communism= lower communism= socialism.
*state
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
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Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:36 pm | |
| Emy is sorely mistaken.
"Bougeois right" refers to feelings of enitlement and giving workers what they have given back to society rather than "to each according to his ability to each according to his need"
you need the former for a SOCIALIST society to function.
THAT in accordance with democracy is the "Bourgeois right" Lenin refers to and that will be abolished as the state whithers away and a state of abundance is achieved. |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:45 pm | |
| SO how the hell was I mistaken?
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:13 am | |
| i misread
i thought you were saying a communist/social society needs greed and whatnot to function
sorry |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:58 pm | |
| That's what I thought. That is exactly what I thought.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Thu May 08, 2008 8:04 am | |
| | Anarchist.Dagger wrote: |
My question is: Why are people morally averse to things like drugs, prostitution, pornography, and the like?
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I think people are frightened by lack of control over oneself and those around them. Drugs inhibit ones ability to maintain control of themselves. prostitution may be frowned upon for several reasons firstly that it is dangerous hygienically to have such a multitude of sexual partners. secondly i think we are all animals when you get to the core of us, and animals reproduce. a prostitute has sex with no intention of ever conceiving a child (as do most of us) but for whatever reason prostitution is seemingly more unsettlingly to the general public then a couple using contraception. and pornography... well pornography i can't oppose  |
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davidhume2000
New Friend
Joined : 23 May 2008
Posts : 3
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Thu May 29, 2008 7:03 am | |
| Certinaly people are behavioraly dispossed as the result of our unique evolution but there is also a history of culture behind the complexities of human aversion. Aversion is very powerful adaptive mechanism. We avoid pain because of the benifits of keeping our bodies intact. We are adverse to bitter tastes because poisons are often bitter.
When aversion is the result of culture it takes the form of taboo. Taboo's can result from an ecological need but they can also result from attempts by law makers to objectify the masses.
Somewhere in this complex exist moral norms. |
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Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:26 pm | |
| | davidhume2000 wrote: | Certinaly people are behavioraly dispossed as the result of our unique evolution but there is also a history of culture behind the complexities of human aversion. Aversion is very powerful adaptive mechanism. We avoid pain because of the benifits of keeping our bodies intact. We are adverse to bitter tastes because poisons are often bitter.
When aversion is the result of culture it takes the form of taboo. Taboo's can result from an ecological need but they can also result from attempts by law makers to objectify the masses.
Somewhere in this complex exist moral norms. |
That is why i see Anarchy as a fabulous alternative to capitalism. because in an anarchist society the only taboos would be towards things that are directly detremental to society as a whole. this of course would elliminate the opposition to harmless social states of being; sexuality, race ect. |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:28 pm | |
| | Quote: | | That is why i see Anarchy as a fabulous alternative to capitalism. because in an anarchist society the only taboos would be towards things that are directly detremental to society as a whole. this of course would elliminate the opposition to harmless social states of being; sexuality, race ect. |
Please do not make moral statements like "anarchy is better than capitalism". you know this kind of moral statement is just as dogmatic and unjustified as saying gay people are evil. so dont say such tihings.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:33 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | Quote: | | That is why i see Anarchy as a fabulous alternative to capitalism. because in an anarchist society the only taboos would be towards things that are directly detremental to society as a whole. this of course would elliminate the opposition to harmless social states of being; sexuality, race ect. |
Please do not make moral statements like "anarchy is better than capitalism". you know this kind of moral statement is just as dogmatic and unjustified as saying gay people are evil. so dont say such tihings. |
what? haha note the: "That is why i see" at the begging. its my personal opinion... isnt that what this place is for? haha |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:37 pm | |
| my personal opinion is that gay people are evil. i have no justification is just think so for no reason. you cant critisise that because its my opinoin.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:41 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | my personal opinion is that gay people are evil. i have no justification is just think so for no reason. you cant critisise that because its my opinoin. |
you are being rediculous. that is not a fair comparision to my argument for anarchism. all my opinions are grounded with alot of good resoning behind them. would you like me to explain WHY i have those opinions? would that better legitimize them for you? |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:43 pm | |
| moral statements NEVER have justification. but try to justify it. this will be good.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:53 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | moral statements NEVER have justification. but try to justify it. this will be good. |
firstly that was NOT a moral statement. i did NOT say capitalism was "immoral" nor did i say that Anarchism is moraly superior. my aurgument was that in an anarchist society the public view of "morality" would be much more aware of society as a whole. it would be unlikely that homosexuality would be frowned upon because that is generaly a religous belief and in an anarchist society religoun would be obsolete. this is because it offers nothing more than incentive to be "moral" and in a fully functiong anarchist society the only necissary incentive is the want to better society. this because betterung society is the only way to better yourself. also there would be no taboo against theft because theft wouldnt even exist. material possesions are the property of society as a whole and without financial incentive i.e. currency the genral public would have less of a sense of personal possesion and a stronger want towards bettering society as a whole and in turn bettering the individual's state of being. |
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Watermelon
ZEK in siberian gulag
Age : 97
Joined : 05 Apr 2008
Posts : 2641
Location : Iceland
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:55 pm | |
| you have not justified why anarchism is better than nazism. you have just said theres no religion no theft blahblahblah who cares. you are just saying nothing.
_________________
"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990
accept green or die!!!
my name is evyindur H haarde |
|
| | |
Alek4A
Pioneer Leader
Age : 16
Joined : 06 May 2008
Posts : 77
Location : America
| | Subject: Re: Morals - Why? Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:01 pm | |
| | Watermelon wrote: | | you have not justified why anarchism is better than nazism. you have just said theres no religion no theft blahblahblah who cares. you are just saying nothing. |
Saying nothing? 90% of what i've seen you write on here was spam haha.  besides that i think that a society in which all people are only concerend with bettering the public is a very succsesfull one. you are being standoffish and its limiting your abillity to expand your beliefs.  |
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