our slogan

Guest

i told you i told you i told you

LOL

debates within the party

united front that champions the causes of all the oppressed in the face of rightwingers

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:19 am

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:22 am

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:23 am

Guest

Soviet democracy system

and I support that as well

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:27 am

So what would you say are the differences between Trotskyism and Luxemburgism?
_________________

"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

accept green or die!!!

my name is evyindur H haarde

Guest

I've never heard of luxemburgism...

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:31 am

It's a kind of Marxism based on the teachings of Rosa Luxemburg. Here;s a wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxemburgism
_________________

"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

accept green or die!!!

my name is evyindur H haarde

Guest

lol massive differences

"It was understood that Marxism superseded such tendencies through the transformation of the urban artisan classes into a modern proletariat; hence, the struggles by Marx and Engels for national unification and the full development of capitalist relations where they were retarded. By the turn of the century, this definition of opportunism played very much into solidifying the conception of the party of the whole class—that a workers party should encompass every political tendency in the workers movement. It was argued that since opportunism came from outside the workers movement, the growth of the proletariat and of its organization would eventually strengthen the revolutionary tendencies in Social Democracy. Here is a quote from SPD leader Karl Kautsky’s 1909 The Road to Power, which tried to explain the weakness of revolutionary Social Democracy by pointing to the backwardness of the proletariat, which, Kautsky argued, reflected either a continued identification with the petty bourgeoisie or a lack of confidence in the strength of the workers movement:

“To a large degree hatched out of the small capitalist and small farmer class, many proletarians long carry the shells of these classes about with them. They do not feel themselves proletarians, but as would-be property owners.... Others, again, have gone further, and have come to recognize the necessity of fighting the capitalists that stand in antagonism to them, but do not feel themselves secure enough and strong enough to declare war on the entire capitalist system. These look to capitalist parties and governments for relief.”

In other words, it is entirely a question of ideology.

With the partial exception of Rosa Luxemburg, every revolutionary Social Democrat accepted this definition of the source of opportunism, including Lenin. For example, until the beginning of the First World War, Lenin generally characterized the Russian Mensheviks as a petty-bourgeois intellectual tendency outside the workers movement. When asked to justify the formal split in 1912 between the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, Lenin argued that the bulk of the class-conscious workers movement in Russia rallied to the side of the Bolsheviks, while the Mensheviks’ base consisted largely of intellectuals. This argument had its limits, though. Empirically, at the time of the split, it may have been true, but the view that the Mensheviks were outside the workers movement was impressionistic. The wave of patriotism that swept Russia with the outbreak of World War I, including among workers, served to increase the proletarian base of the opportunist Mensheviks at the expense of the Bolsheviks, who had a revolutionary defeatist line. So, by the time of the February Revolution of 1917, the Mensheviks were far stronger in relation to the Leninists than they had been in 1912.

In some of his writings, Lenin began to recognize the inadequate nature of this theory of opportunism. For example, in an April 1914 polemic against Leon Trotsky titled “Unity,” he anticipates a split in principle with opportunists in the workers movement, writing:

“There can be no unity, federal or other, with liberal-labor politicians, with disrupters of the working-class movement, with those who defy the will of the majority. There can and must be unity among all consistent Marxists, among all those who stand for the entire Marxist body and the uncurtailed slogans, independently of the liquidators and apart from them.

“Unity is a great thing and a great slogan. But what the workers’ cause needs is the unity of Marxists, not unity between Marxists, and opponents and distorters of Marxism."

and read this article
http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2003/WAR795.HTM

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:52 am

So they have a different definition of opportunism? Which definition was supported by whom? And how is that a massive difference?
_________________

"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

accept green or die!!!

my name is evyindur H haarde

Guest

luxemburgism is opportunism

which is just the same as current fake socialist groups today like the ISO and RCP

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:01 am

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:27 am

Guest

choosing when and when not to follow ones political program so as not to "alienate" people and mislead them into the party.

For example, if everytime i realized that the leftists on this organization disagreed with me I lied and pretended to agree with them and then ask them to join the ICL cause we agree with them, THAT'D be opportunism

OR

Stalin discoursing from Marxism and pushing for communism in one country is opportunist because it would alienate Stalin's standing with other nations

stuff liek that

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:33 am

That's bad.
_________________

"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

accept green or die!!!

my name is evyindur H haarde

Guest

yes...it's very very bad

be back in a bit

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:34 am

I have to leave too. Dinner time. Bye everyone.

EDit: Just kidding. apparently dinner's not ready yet.
_________________

"The market is not an invention of capitalism. It has existed for centuries. It is an invention of civilization"
Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

accept green or die!!!

my name is evyindur H haarde

Subject: Re: our slogan Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:29 am

World Republic: A multi-national gathering of the radical minds

Subject: Re: our slogan Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:52 pm

If you only want to discuss with like minded open the communist party topic, (can be viewed only by communists) and post there.

No one forces you to talk with everyone!