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Lilith
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 4:46 pm

Nevertheless, it still be a good idea to give psychological help to the women that have been raped. That's an excellent point in my view. three weeks also seems good, but I would give more time...you know there still be injustice here.....there's women that had been raped and because the guy putted drug in her glass, she just don't remember. It's not really possible to notice before 2 or 3 months. That's unfair for those women. We sould let 3 months.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 5:22 pm

Lilith wrote:
Nevertheless, it still be a good idea to give psychological help to the women that have been raped. That's an excellent point in my view. three weeks also seems good, but I would give more time...you know there still be injustice here.....there's women that had been raped and because the guy putted drug in her glass, she just don't remember. It's not really possible to notice before 2 or 3 months. That's unfair for those women. We sould let 3 months.
in the thisrd month an abortion gets too dangerus for a woman I would say 6-10 weeks max
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Lilith
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 7:40 pm

Where did you get the information?

And anyway, if its dangerous for the mother, she'll be already conscious. It's her decision and government don't have to say a word about it: it's her right to risk her life of no.
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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 7:42 pm

Lilith wrote:


And anyway, if its dangerous for the mother, she'll be already conscious. It's her decision and government don't have to say a word about it: it's her right to risk her life of no.

Your a own individual, but as 1 you should follow the laws, but make your own choises Wink
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Lilith
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 8:15 pm

yeah. You can follow the laws AND make your own choices. The government have to rule somethings, but there's others, like taking this kind of risk that still be personnal choices. Should Plastic Surgery be ban because it comport risks? No. Same for abortion. That's not an argument.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 10:05 pm

And I keep my stance, abortion is murder. I don't think abortion should be considered morally correct in any context except perhaps when there are genetic malformations or risk to the mother when the baby is impossible to be saved.
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Alek4A
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 19, 2008 11:03 pm

Liche wrote:
wow

I feel like an ass

don't even remember typing that....
Embarassed

will you guts for give me No

haha yea. of course =]
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Lilith
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 23, 2008 8:19 pm

Anyway, I still think abortion is a right each women must have. Governement doesn't have to decide for us if it's good or no. All works following our own values. I think abortion is a personnal choice. Choices and opinions are part of humans rights. Everybody have the right to decide what they're gona do with their own life, and as I said, governement doesn't have to make that choice for us. (At least there's no exageration)
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 23, 2008 10:29 pm

Lilith wrote:
Anyway, I still think abortion is a right each women must have. Governement doesn't have to decide for us if it's good or no. All works following our own values. I think abortion is a personnal choice. Choices and opinions are part of humans rights. Everybody have the right to decide what they're gona do with their own life, and as I said, governement doesn't have to make that choice for us. (At least there's no exageration)

If life is defined as starting after conception then abortion is murder. Murder is not to be allowed as a personal right for anyone.

Having sex can imply bringing a human to life and a moral society's duty is to protect all of its members' life integrity.
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Alek4A
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 23, 2008 11:02 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

If life is defined as starting after conception then abortion is murder. Murder is not to be allowed as a personal right for anyone.


Do you masterbate? if so you "murder" thousands of human "lives" everytime you ejaculate. Before the time of 3 months the child is somthing barely more sophisticated than a sperm cell and is without Conciseness. If you ask me, the human condition (and with that the natural rights of a human) are property of the human conscience NOT the human DNA strand. Therfore, a embreyo is not entitled to human rights until its brain has achieved such a stage of development that it is self aware and coherent.

Comrade Pollett wrote:
1 in for girls getting raped will have an orgasm, how about that?

thats the most rediculous suggestion i've ever heard. are you mad?
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 24, 2008 12:19 am

Alek4A wrote:


Comrade Pollett wrote:
1 in for girls getting raped will have an orgasm, how about that?

thats the most rediculous suggestion i've ever heard. are you mad?
some one said that one in four girls having sex well have a orgasm, and that its unlikely that rape victims well get pregnant cus its a minority anyways, so i said that.
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Alek4A
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 am

im willing to bet that no girl has EVER reached orgasm in any legitimant rape. also it is MORE likely the girl would be pregnant then in consentual sex because it is not likely that the rapist would use any form of contraception.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 24, 2008 4:49 am

Alek4A wrote:
im willing to bet that no girl has EVER reached orgasm in any legitimant rape. also it is MORE likely the girl would be pregnant then in consentual sex because it is not likely that the rapist would use any form of contraception.
we should ask Nillerz, he has experince with raping woman.
cheers

Shocked

Neutral

affraid
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 24, 2008 5:38 am

Alek4A wrote:


Do you masterbate? if so you "murder" thousands of human "lives" everytime you ejaculate.

Human life begins when all chromosomes are together as product of conception.

Alek4A wrote:

Before the time of 3 months the child is somthing barely more sophisticated than a sperm cell and is without Conciseness.
While without concsiousness, two things can be argued objectively:
1.Its far more complex than a sperm. (It would be pointless to engage in a biochemical debate just to prove this point.)
2. It is a human life in development.

A sperm is not engaged in any developing reaction while conception initiates that development process.

Alek4A wrote:

If you ask me, the human condition (and with that the natural rights of a human) are property of the human conscience NOT the human DNA strand. Therfore, a embreyo is not entitled to human rights until its brain has achieved such a stage of development that it is self aware and coherent.
From this point of view an abortion practiced at 6 months of pregnancy is acceptable, even one practiced at 8 months. I was born at 8 months, I know people that has been born at 7 months and some people have been born as early as 5-4.5 months.
In fact speaking about coherence, newborn babies are not examples of coherent individuals so over that premise they could be killed.

Human life objectively starts with conception. That's when the whole development process begins. The embryo doesn't "suddenly become alive" as soon as it acquires a brain, or even more ridiculously as the Human right declaration states, as soon as its born.

There is an important gap between "mental activity" and "life".
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 24, 2008 11:33 pm

not your body.
not your choice.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 12:59 am

beatnikzach wrote:
not your body.
not your choice.

That's what I'm saying, just referring to the child instead of the mother.
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Lilith
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 3:06 am

Quote :
not your body.
not your choice.

hmmm. Definitively your body, so your choice. Until the moment the embryon growing into you can live without your body, it's definitively part of your body.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 3:23 am

Lilith wrote:


hmmm. Definitively your body, so your choice. Until the moment the embryon growing into you can live without your body, it's definitively part of your body.

Actually beatnikzach meant other thing: he meant that it isn't the governement/society's body so they can't choose.

And now my point. From a scientific point of view it is not your body, so, it's not part of your body. Is another being in development.
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 3:45 am

Lilith wrote:
Quote :
not your body.
not your choice.

hmmm. Definitively your body, so your choice. Until the moment the embryon growing into you can live without your body, it's definitively part of your body.
i meant the only person who should choose to abort the kid, is the pregnant person.
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 4:20 am

Doesn't any one think the father should have a say in this?
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 4:54 am

Comrade Pollett wrote:
Doesn't any one think the father should have a say in this?
most fathers would what to get abortion, cause they are scared to raise the baby, and I am only talking about unmarried couples.
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Alek4A
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 11:10 pm

in many cases allowing the child to be born is doing them an injustice... in many cases it sentences them to a substanderd childhood, one which will leave them unprepaired for their futures
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 25, 2008 11:52 pm

Alek4A wrote:
in many cases allowing the child to be born is doing them an injustice... in many cases it sentences them to a substanderd childhood, one which will leave them unprepaired for their futures

Yeah, indeed. If parents are so concerned about that then why risking to have a child? Of course, abortion is not used as an act of benevolence in most cases, it's just a routine procedure to interrupt pregnancy.
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 26, 2008 12:33 am

studies show that a childborn into unwanting parents is like 5 times more likely to be abused/neglacted.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Abortion   Abortion - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 26, 2008 12:48 am

beatnikzach wrote:
studies show that a childborn into unwanting parents is like 5 times more likely to be abused/neglacted.

Yes, and even so most wanted children are condemned to some sort of suffering.

If avoiding child's suffering was to be grounds for abortion, then most couples should be either forcefully sterilized or practiced abortion as soon as they got pregnant.
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