hahahaha

I bet many muslims,jeews and chirtians want to nuke each other.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures
He leadeth me beside the still waters
He restoreth my soul

He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
I will fear no evil; for thou art with me
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies
Thou anoitest my head with oil; my cup runneth over
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever

what the f**k was that, you on crack

It's a song/passage from the bible

it's pretty bad ass.

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

So, you're saying the only thing keeping you from nuking stuff is a belief in God? And ehre I thought religious types WANTED the rapture.

No, I'm saying that morality would be plain stupidity if it was nothing but electrochemical reactions. Just like love would be or sexuality. If they're nothing deeper than that it's just matter of time before science gets control over them being that way able to completely alter your identity by alterring the way those electrochemical reactions occur.

In other words, if factors such as heterosexuality, morality, good feelings for friends, etc. are part of your identity, and you're nothing but a bunch of electrochemical reactions, given the proper control over them you could be turned into a homosexual zoophiliac whose greatest satisfaction aside fucking male cats and horses is to chop books to bits.

However, if you got a soul, a foundation for your identity beyond science, then no matter how many biochemical procedures were applied to you in order to change your identity, it wouldn't change.

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Anyway, it doesn't chage the fact that you ARE electro chemical reactions. ANd knowing this, I can safely say that it does not chage the fact that they still HAPPEN, even if a feeling is a chemical reaction, I stll FEEL it. S it's a moot point. I AM cells held together by... okay, I forget it's name. y feelins ARE electrochemical reactions in my brain. So? THey're still happening, and I still feel them all the same.

It's not matter of they occuring or not, it's matter of them being product of something that can be artificially controlled or not. All of that is part of your identity and the point I'm arguing is that I want to believe all those electrochemical reactions are ruled by something beyond science's comprehension, something like a soul. That your identity' reaction to external factors can't be determined and further modified through scientific procedures.

If it can then we don't exist in reality, we're just an accidental concept someone will find the way to destroy sooner or later without kiling us.

Hoxhaist wrote:

What if it makes me feel better to THINK I have a million dollars?

You're speaking about something material, like 1 million dollars. Something that given its existance would be countable, modifiable usable.
In the other hand I'm speaking of thiinking about something that precisely is not material, uncountable or usable. I'm talking about the existance of something non-understandable.

Hoxhaist wrote:

I want to think I have a million dollars. Who cares about making existence valuable.

I care about making existance valuable.

Hoxhaist wrote:

A discussion about whether god exists must focus on the truth. Whether it's true that god exists, not whether existence is more valuable if god exists. Your just trying to make yourself feel better by denying the facts.

The thing is that I'm arguing about the existance of something precisely escaping our procedures to understand it. Something being there that we can't understand or directly study.

Hoxhaist wrote:

Every feeling or thought would be pointless, not necessarily stupid.
Again you can't bring yourself to accept the truth. As Dawkins once said, "the truth looks bleak from under the security blanket of ignorance."

Feeling sad about something would be stupid since everything would be pointless. Spending hours dicussing on the moral implications of genocide would be stupid since there are no moral implications for life is pointess.

Hoxhaist wrote:

Non sequitur. Nuclear war would be as pointless as everything else.

If existance consists precisely of mere electrochemical reactions then from that actual perspective of mine the quality and value of said processes would be proportional to its magnitude.

Hoxhaist wrote:

Neither am I.

You seem to be arguing that I argue that by thinking god is real I can materialize god.

Hoxhaist wrote:

So am I. It's more comforting for me to believe that I have a million dollars.

It's more confortable for you to think that you have something material of which unexistance can be easily proven. While for me it's more comfortable to think there's something that we can't understand and that escapes our methods of study and we can't control. In oter words something that precisely for it's characteristics while existant can't be proven.

Two different things.

Hoxhaist wrote:

We are made up entirely of matter. We have no soul. We have no point of existence, no free will. These can be proved quite trivially with the use of science.

Funny enough many top mathematicians and quantuum physicists would disagree with you. Science hasn't been able yet to understand a plethora of phenomena.

Hoxhaist wrote:

It doesn't. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I'm arguing about the existance of something whose existance can't be proven or studied directly.

Hoxhaist wrote:

I want to think I have a million dollars. Alas, the existence of a million dollars in my bank account is as real as god/soul/anything supernatural.

With the difference that the unexistance of the million dollars in your bank account can be proven while the existance of such concepts can't be proven. It's precisely something that escapes the scientific framework.

yeah........... i agreee with HOX




_{edit: Eliminated following phraseand how much free time do you guys have????}

Hoxhaist wrote:

I'm arguing that just because you want something to exist doesn't mean it does.

Just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it so.

And I'm not arguing that by thinking it's real it actually becomes real.

If I argue it's something whose existance we can't study therefore its existance being impossible to undertand by us leaving us to uncertaininty then I prefer to ewlminate that uncertainity and b e convinced that such exists.

Hoxhaist wrote:

I'm not sure why you say god is beyond our understanding.

However if it were, then it would be impossible to say anything about the existence of god, for we would not be able to understand what we were talking about.

Not the entity "god" per say but it's existance. Just as the same as a soul. Having a definition of it yet being unable to understand how such a thing can exist or study it.

thankyou for mking it to the point, so now that i have read it, i again agree with hox

Uhmm...art of the proxy here again... anyways, I believe that gods do exist and that humans, as a whole, need at least some religious beliefs to explain the supernatural and sort.

For example, I somewhat believe that Four Gods DID exist in Korea and I still believe that they lie dormant, waiting for a moment to awaken. In fact, plenty of records and murals document those gods in fact, DID exist in ancient Korea. Maybe not physically, but spiritually, yes.

As for other religions, like Christianity and stuff...well. No offense here but I personally feel Christianity is highly materialistic in teaching and invidualism at times. Sure, I can respect Jesus, but as for disciplices...er, no.

And looking at Christianity in other countries, it is the exact same thing as capitalism.

our soul is made of CO2 and radioactive stuffs

Hoxhaist wrote:

Scientific observations have so far produced zero evidence of a soul, even though human bodies have been dissected many times.

Meaning soul can't be found by dissecting bodies.

Hoxhaist wrote:

The only way to escape this is by claiming that a soul can not be seen, felt, smelled, heard, or tasted (intangible) thereby admitting it does not exist.

What about perceived by the individual?

Hoxhaist wrote:

It is the same with the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There is no proof it does not exist, does that mean we should be agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Santa Claus or (insert fairy tale character here)?

Considering we know so few we can't deny the possibility of such existing. However, even a Spaghetti Monster is something material.

Hoxhaist wrote:

Again I say, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

If the methods to gather said evidence do not exist there it can't be gathered there's no way to simply dismiss existance.

weait what do ytou mean art of the proxy here again?

I'm still confused about the Spagheti monster thing?

so do people actually believe it? and think of it as a god?

Hoxhaist wrote:

If it can't be found in any way, it doesn't exist.

Maybe the way to find it is not widespread.

Hoxhaist wrote:

There's only five ways of perceiving things (senses). I covered them all.

There is a less direct way for perceiving things.

Hoxhais wrote:

Actually the Flying Spaghetti Monster is omnipresent and immaterial. It has equal possibility of existing as your "god".

And I don't disregard its existance.

Hoxhaist wrote:

Your conception of god is something that can't be detected in any way. If this is correct, then we only differ in terminology. You call it god, I call it nothing.

Such conceptions are precisely of things whose existance can't be scientifically detected nor proven.

all ahil the flying spagetti mosner, its like a "fake" religeon

enviro wrote:

all ahil the flying spagetti mosner, its like a "fake" religeon

U can't prove it isnt there and u can't prove it is there, just like all the other relgeons.

Hoxhaist wrote:

What other sense is there? I never heard of the other one.

Those are things I prefer not to speak about.

But tell me, is it such a great concern that people believe in something as a soul or god? And if so why is it?

god is marx, and jesus is che gevuara hurray

Hoxhaist wrote:

I see. You know how to find god, you just can't tell anyone. I believe you, of course.

I don't need absolutely anyone to believe me. I simply think existance would be pathetic if there was nothing beyond science being convinced that there is.

Hoxhaist wrote:

I think it is a concern, because, as Christopher Hitchens said, religion poisons everything.

If I have a religion it is Communist.

its very sad when you worship and economic system that will never exist or has flaws, WHOOPS did i just speak aobut christanity, judaism, and muslim-ism

enviro wrote:

its very sad when you worship and economic system that will never exist or has flaws, WHOOPS did i just speak aobut christanity, judaism, and muslim-ism

Islam. *when you worship an.

You can't argue that something that hasn't been tried can't exist. Everything can have flaws but many of them be subjective in the csae of economic systems.

once again your down to earth logic has changed my mind

http://venganza.org/

This will answer you the question of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's origins and meaning. Tis the official site, made by the dude who first wrote the letter to the Kansas State School Board. The letter's there, actually. Oh, and read the hate mail. just some funny shit, I tell ya.

But yeah, essentially it's a parody religion saying that a Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as real as the three Gods of the desert, Yaweh, Jehova/God and Allah. He ACTUALLY wrote a bible for it that you can buy. I SO have to get me one. Did you know that as the number of pirates has decreased global warming has gone up? And I mean "REAL" pirates, those that wore eyepatches and peg legs and parrots, spontaneously breaking into song and dance, not today's who kill rape and pillage. no, history liues about the "real" pirates. Yes, indeed. Imaginary God, i ove this religion. He, he, he.

When I die I get a beer volcanoe and a stripper factory. Our hell is the same, but the beer is flat and the strippers all have STDs.

im a pastafarian