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 Early Marx

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:32 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
I explained why in great detail. Read it.

Using this formula, you can see that the tendency to invest more in constant capital increases c/v, also called the organic composition of capital. This increases the bottom half of the ratio, leading to a decline in profit for the capitalists.


why dose the tendacy increas?
anyway investments that do not produce more profit are not used so your argument is qite invalid.

if you are tlking about the owner spending more money on himself and less on the workers then you are wrong. if he spends money on "useless" things pepole will get jobs making those things creating secondary jobs wich make up the majoraty of jobs today.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:35 pm

Quote :
anyway investments that do not produce more profit are not used so your argument is qite invalid.
That's not what I said.

Quote :
if you are tlking about the owner spending more money on himself and less on the workers then you are wrong
That's not what I said either.

Quote :
if he spends money on "useless" things pepole will get jobs making those things creating secondary jobs wich make up the majoraty of jobs today.
DIdn't say that either.


READ
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:37 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
anyway investments that do not produce more profit are not used so your argument is qite invalid.
That's not what I said.

Quote :
if you are tlking about the owner spending more money on himself and less on the workers then you are wrong
That's not what I said either.

Quote :
if he spends money on "useless" things pepole will get jobs making those things creating secondary jobs wich make up the majoraty of jobs today.
DIdn't say that either.


READ

yes and I asked why dose he always spend more than his income allows???
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:38 pm

Quote :
yes and I asked why dose he always spend more than his income allows???
I never fucking said anyone spends more than their income allows. Read the damn thing or shut the hell up! Mad Evil or Very Mad
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:39 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
yes and I asked why dose he always spend more than his income allows???
I never fucking said anyone spends more than their income allows. Read the damn thing or shut the hell up! Mad Evil or Very Mad

so why dose capitalism not work becuse the working class is opressed???
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:42 pm

The working class will become poorer and poorer. All workers will become very poor. If they wuit their job they will get no money so they keep their job to get some money. Soon they will get so poor they can't live unless they end capitalism.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:50 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
The working class will become poorer and poorer. All workers will become very poor. If they wuit their job they will get no money so they keep their job to get some money. Soon they will get so poor they can't live unless they end capitalism.

oh that makes no senes.
workers will start to work secondary jobs as techers, house bulders, mechnics and other jobs related to that. this is possibel becuse as the working class is "opressed" it gets smaller and forms a new middel class working secondary jobs wich are created trough the newfound profit of owners of factoryes. now this leads to inflation wich makes the owners product more expensive becuse there is always more demand this means the workers will demand more pay wich if not leads as you said to rebbelion but workers unions are rathere made and "capitalists" are forced to rais pay on the cost of theyer own money. now with this consumbiton should fall, but no becuse the workers will get more pay and they will buy more and with this new wealth the population will increas as I pointed out before. this in trun creates more wealth for evrone becuse workers will again demand more pay and it will rise. but at a threshold wealth( increas) slows down as the technological improvements get fewer and the cost of living rises. this leads to were we stand now, I personally have no I dear what happens next.
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:52 pm

Quote :
workers will start to work secondary jobs as techers, house bulders, mechnics and other jobs related to that.
That would mean increased investment in variable capital but capitalists wouldn't be able to afford that because their profits are declining.

Quote :
this is possibel becuse as the working class is "opressed" it gets smaller and forms a new middel class working secondary jobs wich are created trough the newfound profit of owners of factoryes
The middle class is part of the working class they will get poorer too. The capitalists will have no "newfound profit." Profits don't fall out of the sky.

So the workers will get poorer.
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:27 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
workers will start to work secondary jobs as techers, house bulders, mechnics and other jobs related to that.
That would mean increased investment in variable capital but capitalists wouldn't be able to afford that because their profits are declining.

Quote :
this is possibel becuse as the working class is "opressed" it gets smaller and forms a new middel class working secondary jobs wich are created trough the newfound profit of owners of factoryes
The middle class is part of the working class they will get poorer too. The capitalists will have no "newfound profit." Profits don't fall out of the sky.

So the workers will get poorer.

wow you tuly are stupid.
a miner takes a pick and starts mining a hillside then wow he finds a peace of gold and who know he is rich now.

when he makes more money he has to pay tax, the tax is used to pay teachers and othere state employees theyer pay then those buy products and the owner again gets a part of his profit back.
if in thory capitalism dose not work then why has it worked for 7000 years??
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:29 pm

For taxes to help they would have to be constantly increasing to keep up with the constantly decreasing rate of profit. If this did happen the workers would be impoverished anyway so it has the same effect.

Quote :
if in thory capitalism dose not work then why has it worked for 7000 years??
In theory it does work, but it won't in the future. In the past it has always worked because constant capital has been substantially less than variable capital. This is changing.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:47 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
For taxes to help they would have to be constantly increasing to keep up with the constantly decreasing rate of profit. If this did happen the workers would be impoverished anyway so it has the same effect.

Quote :
if in thory capitalism dose not work then why has it worked for 7000 years??
In theory it does work, but it won't in the future. In the past it has always worked because constant capital has been substantially less than variable capital. This is changing.

I'll bet 500 pounds that it won't happen in the next 80 years
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PostSubject: Re: Early Marx   Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:45 am

Quote :
I'll bet 500 pounds that it won't happen in the next 80 years
You're right, it won't.
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