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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:53 am

Title says all! Razz Take your pick, the Russian Avtomat Kalashnikova-47 or the American "Colt" M16.

I like the AK-47. ^^ Why? Simply because a mud clogged gun that CAN STILL SHOOT beats a melting POS that jams after a bit of sand clogs the thing.

That, and I remember "horror" stories of the M16 quite literally MELTING in my dad's hands when he was in Korean Army service. D:
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:25 am

AK-47 for sure...m-16's are pieces of shit
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:54 am

Avtomat Kalashnikova FTW
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:27 am

M-16. I love shooting them more.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:52 pm

the AK clearly, but if i could chose from all guns in the world i would chose a MetalStorm gun, 16.000 rounds a second Very Happy
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/310622/fire_power/
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:49 pm

AK-47.

As for the metal storm... well... I don't think it's the only project of the kind being developed around the world, nor I think it is really practical.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:28 am

AK-47's don't jam either.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:05 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
nor I think it is really practical.
not practical ? your kidding right, it never jams and it can fire 3 bullets before recoil, and it can be finger-print secured, if that is not a practical weapon i dont what is Razz
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:25 am

The AK-47 is the most practical weapon in the world.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:42 pm

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:
Title says all! Razz Take your pick, the Russian Avtomat Kalashnikova-47 or the American "Colt" M16.

I like the AK-47. ^^ Why? Simply because a mud clogged gun that CAN STILL SHOOT beats a melting POS that jams after a bit of sand clogs the thing.

That, and I remember "horror" stories of the M16 quite literally MELTING in my dad's hands when he was in Korean Army service. D:
ak-47b range 300m,rf 600 rpm very simpel to handel esey to make and good for civilwar.
M16a4 5.56mm range 550m, rf 800-900 rpm. with scope and grenade luncher ideal for war, real war.

lol m16 is a modren assult riffel used by nato and has both longer range than the ak.
lol the m16 wusn't developed till 5 years after the korean war
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:57 pm

Ryom wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
nor I think it is really practical.
not practical ? your kidding right, it never jams and it can fire 3 bullets before recoil, and it can be finger-print secured, if that is not a practical weapon i dont what is Razz

It's not practical because it's hard to reload and spends a lot of ammunition, else, if for some reason it gets damaged I don't think it would be easy to repair.

mattabesta wrote:
ak-47b range 300m,rf 600 rpm very simpel to handel esey to make and good for civilwar.
M16a4 5.56mm range 550m, rf 800-900 rpm. with scope and grenade luncher ideal for war, real war.

lol m16 is a modren assult riffel used by nato and has both longer range than the ak.
lol the m16 wusn't developed till 5 years after the korean war

That looks like something that would be written on the manual of some wargame.

The AK-47 can have both grenade launcher and can be adjusted to launch RPGs.

And what's your definition of civil war hmm? "Mock up war"? "Mildly fake war"? And what is a real war? Necesarily a war between 2 or more Nations? And what makes one weapon "ideal" for each kind of war?

And the fact that NATO uses a weapon doesn't make it good, take it well into account.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:05 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Ryom wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
nor I think it is really practical.
not practical ? your kidding right, it never jams and it can fire 3 bullets before recoil, and it can be finger-print secured, if that is not a practical weapon i dont what is Razz

It's not practical because it's hard to reload and spends a lot of ammunition, else, if for some reason it gets damaged I don't think it would be easy to repair.

mattabesta wrote:
ak-47b range 300m,rf 600 rpm very simpel to handel esey to make and good for civilwar.
M16a4 5.56mm range 550m, rf 800-900 rpm. with scope and grenade luncher ideal for war, real war.

lol m16 is a modren assult riffel used by nato and has both longer range than the ak.
lol the m16 wusn't developed till 5 years after the korean war

That looks like something that would be written on the manual of some wargame.

The AK-47 can have both grenade launcher and can be adjusted to launch RPGs.

And what's your definition of civil war hmm? "Mock up war"? "Mildly fake war"? And what is a real war? Necesarily a war between 2 or more Nations? And what makes one weapon "ideal" for each kind of war?

And the fact that NATO uses a weapon doesn't make it good, take it well into account.
no it's on wiki
civilwar is were the combatans are citecens not soldiers.
it dosent matter wether you can fix m16 you can just get a new one.
i think your all thinking of the AK-74 the newer type.
but wiki dosen't say anything about rpg nor gl
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:28 am

mattabesta wrote:
[no it's on wiki
I guess the guy who wrote it forgot to cite the Cock of Doody 4: Moderngayfuckstupid Manual Razz (partially kidding)

mattabesta wrote:

civilwar is were the combatans are citecens not soldiers.

*citizens, and given the context, the term "civilians" would have served better your purpose, even soldiers at service are citizens of a given country, so all wars except those against barbarians, are between citizens.

Awwww how cute... you take everything so literal! Civil War is a war between citizens of the same nation regardless of their profession, vocation or ocupation.
mattabesta wrote:

it dosent matter wether you can fix m16 you can just get a new one.
So you're suggesting a soldier should carry at least 2 or 3 M-16s in case one breaks? Or you're suggesting that in the middle of battle there's some replenishment store where you can immediately get a new M-16?

"And suddenly my M-16 jammed... fortunately on sand dune number 45 there was an M-16 store open and unseen by enemies. I bought a new one and I could keep battling"

mattabesta wrote:

i think your all thinking of the AK-74 the newer type.
No, we're talking about the Ak-47

mattabesta wrote:

but wiki dosen't say anything about rpg nor gl

The author of the article should make a more thoroug research if he pretends to give any validity to his article.


And Matthi, would you mind to avoid quoting the whole post if you're not going to use the quotation?
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:10 pm

the m16 are not only made by the dozen, they are bloody made by the Ton Razz
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:56 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
[no it's on wiki
I guess the guy who wrote it forgot to cite the Cock of Doody 4: Moderngayfuckstupid Manual Razz (partially kidding)

mattabesta wrote:

civilwar is were the combatans are citecens not soldiers.

*citizens, and given the context, the term "civilians" would have served better your purpose, even soldiers at service are citizens of a given country, so all wars except those against barbarians, are between citizens.

Awwww how cute... you take everything so literal! Civil War is a war between citizens of the same nation regardless of their profession, vocation or ocupation.
mattabesta wrote:

it dosent matter wether you can fix m16 you can just get a new one.
So you're suggesting a soldier should carry at least 2 or 3 M-16s in case one breaks? Or you're suggesting that in the middle of battle there's some replenishment store where you can immediately get a new M-16?

"And suddenly my M-16 jammed... fortunately on sand dune number 45 there was an M-16 store open and unseen by enemies. I bought a new one and I could keep battling"

mattabesta wrote:

i think your all thinking of the AK-74 the newer type.
No, we're talking about the Ak-47

mattabesta wrote:

but wiki dosen't say anything about rpg nor gl

The author of the article should make a more thoroug research if he pretends to give any validity to his article.


And Matthi, would you mind to avoid quoting the whole post if you're not going to use the quotation?

us marines advance with hummer or tank support wich means they always have transportation wating for them fully loded with ammo and m16 and all you dudes talking about the m-16 jamming presumebly donīt work with the us army in full trayning were you learn to clean your gun and how to make sure it dose not over heat.

Ak-47 was made in 1946 the m16 fas originally made in 1960 get real the tchnolagy avaibel in 46 was much worse than the one avaibel in 60.

dude although i'm not perfect at english ther is no need to insult me it's childish.
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:24 am

mattabesta wrote:

us marines advance with hummer or tank support wich means they always have transportation wating for them fully loded with ammo and m16 and all you dudes talking about the m-16 jamming presumebly donīt work with the us army in full trayning were you learn to clean your gun and how to make sure it dose not over heat.

Ak-47 was made in 1946 the m16 fas originally made in 1960 get real the tchnolagy avaibel in 46 was much worse than the one avaibel in 60.

dude although i'm not perfect at english ther is no need to insult me it's childish.

What the hell?! US ALWAYS has freaking support in the form of airstrikes and tanks, ammo is IRRELAVENT in this form!

I was meaning on just how many magazines one preson can carry on him. No tanks, no jeeps, no fucking AMMO depots whatsoever!!!

Sure, granted, AK ammo is a LOT heavier but because it's heavier, it hits harder. And DON'T give us that "inaccurate" myth. I've seen people who freaking get inch groups with AK-47s. That alone says something.

And to back up the M16 jamming and just generally being a failed weapon concept, my JROTC supply Sgt. hates the weapon with a passion. His reasons are the 0.7mm (that's PENCIL LEAD THIN) gas tube can overheat to WHITE HOT after wasting just a little over 600 rounds. As for the "direct impingment" system itself, it fouls the action of the weapon little by little. Not enough to make a green recuit take notice but for the experienced veteran, yes.

Also, the weapon takes about a full week lesson in just breaking the thing down, field stripping it, getting an oiled rag and brush, and thus cramming it into the nooks and crevices of the "fine" weapon. Compare that to...say...4 hours just to teach a normal civilian on how to break down and clean the AKs major inner parts: the bolt, spring, piston, and cover. That's about it.

M16/M4s however, require MUCH more "fine tuning". Like this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m16a1strip.jpg
And this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m16a3xray.jpg

That's all enough to drive a normal person crazy. Like this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/ar15_blow.jpg

A green recuit needs to know how to get his/her weapon in working order so he/she can engage and confront a possible threat to personal being, family, or friends. The M16/M4 series "rifles" are way too propagandised by US made games such as Call of Duty 4 (thankfully, the gun is weaker than the AK ;D ) and America's Army. The M series can not even handle the dry arid desert enviroments of Middle East. The weapon failed poor US soldiers utterly in the Vietnam War, what makes people think the M16 is a good gun?

Take in account that the M16 series is the ONLY "rifle" series in the world today that uses a "recoilless" direct impingment system. Not even Korea's Daewoo rifles use that obsolete system.

What the heck? Tech in 47 worse than in 60s? Dude...60 in the US was when people were smoking crack and getting all "countercultured" back then. Ala "Hippies". Eugune Stoner must've been off his mind when he created his gun. But then again...the M16 DID get into politics... =/

The Russian AK47 was based off the German Sturmgewehr44 and Mikhail's own combat experience as a Red Army tanker in WW2.

Even moreso, while Eugune got rich quick and made a living, poor Mikhail did not even make a CENT from his invention. The man has been living off of pensions and donations given to him, praising him for inventing the AK.

He sincerely wishes he invented the lawnmower instead.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:08 pm

I take Kalashnikov.

Why do you think everyone is using AKs? Who uses American M-16 and similiar types? No one apart from American soldiers who are forced to use it because their government is lobbied by private-owned arms corporations.

Everyone uses AKs! Starting from low rank criminals, to superpowers. Although there is a huge difference in the AKs used (Russian special forces use much better AKs than armies in some third world countries), AK is the No 1 pick!

AK-47, AK-74, AK-101, AK-103...
With silencers, scopes, nightvision, laser sight, grenadelaunchers...

Awesome!
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:19 pm

mattabesta wrote:

us marines advance with hummer or tank support wich means they always have transportation wating for them fully loded with ammo and m16 and all you dudes talking about the m-16 jamming presumebly donīt work with the us army in full trayning were you learn to clean your gun and how to make sure it dose not over heat.

I have seen documentaries and read about US mmarines complaining about the performance of the M-16. Else, the simple fact that is does jam and overheats or has the chance to, mkaes it a less reliable weapon than the Ak-47.

And its not like "Damn, my M-16 jammed... call ammo support. *A Humvee comes full with M-16* Thanks man! Now I can keep battling with this new M-16!"

mattabesta wrote:

Ak-47 was made in 1946 the m16 fas originally made in 1960 get real the tchnolagy avaibel in 46 was much worse than the one avaibel in 60.
The time gap between the two weapons doesn't prove anything. The M-16 still jams and overheats making it less reliable than the Ak-47 which is the point of our arguement. Besides, this thread is about personal choises which can involve as subjective factors as aesthetics, and inmy view, Ak-47 is better-looking.

mattabesta wrote:

dude although i'm not perfect at english ther is no need to insult me it's childish.

Who is insulting you and how?
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:19 am

ak. we got one. its the most reliable gun i have ever seen. my franpa got it as a gift for his army service and we have had it for 25 years. not one bad thing like jams has happened to it. but i do prefer shotguns. not cuase of there fire power, but becuase of that chich-chich sound. lol!
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:08 am

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:
mattabesta wrote:

us marines advance with hummer or tank support wich means they always have transportation wating for them fully loded with ammo and m16 and all you dudes talking about the m-16 jamming presumebly donīt work with the us army in full trayning were you learn to clean your gun and how to make sure it dose not over heat.

Ak-47 was made in 1946 the m16 fas originally made in 1960 get real the tchnolagy avaibel in 46 was much worse than the one avaibel in 60.

dude although i'm not perfect at english ther is no need to insult me it's childish.

What the hell?! US ALWAYS has freaking support in the form of airstrikes and tanks, ammo is IRRELAVENT in this form!

I was meaning on just how many magazines one preson can carry on him. No tanks, no jeeps, no fucking AMMO depots whatsoever!!!

Sure, granted, AK ammo is a LOT heavier but because it's heavier, it hits harder. And DON'T give us that "inaccurate" myth. I've seen people who freaking get inch groups with AK-47s. That alone says something.

And to back up the M16 jamming and just generally being a failed weapon concept, my JROTC supply Sgt. hates the weapon with a passion. His reasons are the 0.7mm (that's PENCIL LEAD THIN) gas tube can overheat to WHITE HOT after wasting just a little over 600 rounds. As for the "direct impingment" system itself, it fouls the action of the weapon little by little. Not enough to make a green recuit take notice but for the experienced veteran, yes.

Also, the weapon takes about a full week lesson in just breaking the thing down, field stripping it, getting an oiled rag and brush, and thus cramming it into the nooks and crevices of the "fine" weapon. Compare that to...say...4 hours just to teach a normal civilian on how to break down and clean the AKs major inner parts: the bolt, spring, piston, and cover. That's about it.

M16/M4s however, require MUCH more "fine tuning". Like this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m16a1strip.jpg
And this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m16a3xray.jpg

That's all enough to drive a normal person crazy. Like this...
http://world.guns.ru/assault/ar15_blow.jpg

A green recuit needs to know how to get his/her weapon in working order so he/she can engage and confront a possible threat to personal being, family, or friends. The M16/M4 series "rifles" are way too propagandised by US made games such as Call of Duty 4 (thankfully, the gun is weaker than the AK ;D ) and America's Army. The M series can not even handle the dry arid desert enviroments of Middle East. The weapon failed poor US soldiers utterly in the Vietnam War, what makes people think the M16 is a good gun?

Take in account that the M16 series is the ONLY "rifle" series in the world today that uses a "recoilless" direct impingment system. Not even Korea's Daewoo rifles use that obsolete system.

What the heck? Tech in 47 worse than in 60s? Dude...60 in the US was when people were smoking crack and getting all "countercultured" back then. Ala "Hippies". Eugune Stoner must've been off his mind when he created his gun. But then again...the M16 DID get into politics... =/

The Russian AK47 was based off the German Sturmgewehr44 and Mikhail's own combat experience as a Red Army tanker in WW2.

Even moreso, while Eugune got rich quick and made a living, poor Mikhail did not even make a CENT from his invention. The man has been living off of pensions and donations given to him, praising him for inventing the AK.

He sincerely wishes he invented the lawnmower instead.

yeah the ak is a lot more practical and it is rediculus theat ther hasnīt been a major leap in assult riffels for 50 years.

0.7mm is not pecil lead 0.07mm is pencil.

you win ak is better.

but wahat about this eurofighter vs F-35 anyonje wann debate that?
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:17 am

With all that said, my fav out of the 2 is the ak-47
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:10 am

mattabesta wrote:

yeah the ak is a lot more practical and it is rediculus theat ther hasnīt been a major leap in assult riffels for 50 years.

0.7mm is not pecil lead 0.07mm is pencil.

you win ak is better.

but wahat about this eurofighter vs F-35 anyonje wann debate that?

Why don't you start that thread? Anyway I go more for the Eurofighter.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:48 am

Eh, I still like fireing my M-16 more. I know it shouldnt but it just feels good in my hands... Im a damn good shot with it too because of it.
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:11 am

tjis has nothing to do with the topic.
but mat. why do you keep quoting the whole conversations when you dont even use it
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PostSubject: Re: AK vs M16   Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:52 am

ychoosedemocracy wrote:
tjis has nothing to do with the topic.
but mat. why do you keep quoting the whole conversations when you dont even use it
because hes probably to lazy to cut out the unneeded bits
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