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 DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism

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Cyprian Uljanow
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:49 pm

Hoxhaist wrote:
I cant remember who said they were a DeLeonist, but DeLeonism fails.

The main reason is its reformist. Reformism always fails because bourgeosie do not gradually concede power. You can not use the bourgeois state machinery to radically transform society.

We must smash the already existing state and replace it with a proletarian dictatorship. This is the only way we can be successful.
And you seriously think that a Council like in China is Proletarian Dictatorship? I think that Commune de Paris was way more effectively representing proletarian dictatorship.

Also the proletarian dictatorship is suppose to be presented only for a periodic time Stalinist-boy.


And I chose reformism just not the ridiculously slow ass one - something what the current Venezuela prez is pulling off. Meaning : Get elected and then commence rapid economical and social reforms, archiving first socialism and then Communism.

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:18 am

totaly!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:06 am

Im sorry but leninism is the true marxist doctrine.

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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:06 am

mononokifool wrote:
Im sorry but leninism is the true marxist doctrine.

Well, I guess the marxistcity of doctrines is not what is being discussed here.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:34 am

Hoxhaist wrote:
I cant remember who said they were a DeLeonist, but DeLeonism fails.

The main reason is its reformist. Reformism always fails because bourgeosie do not gradually concede power. You can not use the bourgeois state machinery to radically transform society.

We must smash the already existing state and replace it with a proletarian dictatorship. This is the only way we can be successful.
im the DeLeonist.
however i believe in violent revolution, not the bourgeoisie giving up power, i believe the streets should be painted with their blood.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:29 pm

beatnikzach wrote:
Hoxhaist wrote:
I cant remember who said they were a DeLeonist, but DeLeonism fails.

The main reason is its reformist. Reformism always fails because bourgeosie do not gradually concede power. You can not use the bourgeois state machinery to radically transform society.

We must smash the already existing state and replace it with a proletarian dictatorship. This is the only way we can be successful.
im the DeLeonist.
however i believe in violent revolution, not the bourgeoisie giving up power, i believe the streets should be painted with their blood.

Violent ways arnt ways to solve things, u can have your "revoltuion" in poor countreis who need socialism and all, but not in 1st world countries, its already good there, the avrage life there is just middle class.
Tell me why u should have blood all over houses in 1st world countries?

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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:01 am

CoolKidX wrote:
beatnikzach wrote:
Hoxhaist wrote:
I cant remember who said they were a DeLeonist, but DeLeonism fails.

The main reason is its reformist. Reformism always fails because bourgeosie do not gradually concede power. You can not use the bourgeois state machinery to radically transform society.

We must smash the already existing state and replace it with a proletarian dictatorship. This is the only way we can be successful.
im the DeLeonist.
however i believe in violent revolution, not the bourgeoisie giving up power, i believe the streets should be painted with their blood.

Violent ways arnt ways to solve things, u can have your "revoltuion" in poor countreis who need socialism and all, but not in 1st world countries, its already good there, the avrage life there is just middle class.
Tell me why u should have blood all over houses in 1st world countries?
1st world counrty = communist
2nd = capitalist
3rd = neither
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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:55 pm

1st= isnt communist O.o

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Cyprian Uljanow
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:32 pm

Sory to break the news but it is Razz

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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:33 pm

Cyprian Uljanow wrote:
Sory to break the news but it is Razz

Rlly?
lol
Like which nations?

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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:32 pm

i have to agree that what chavez is doing will never accomplish anything. Reforms only make it seem ok to live in capitalism therfore it limits the knowledge of class antagonisms. Without the knoledge people will only remain ignorant to the oppressive ways of capitalsim.

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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:37 pm

mononokifool wrote:
i have to agree that what chavez is doing will never accomplish anything. Reforms only make it seem ok to live in capitalism therfore it limits the knowledge of class antagonisms. Without the knoledge people will only remain ignorant to the oppressive ways of capitalsim.

While I agree Chavez is to a great extent mediocre probably "class awareness" won't be negatively affected. In Venezuela most of who oppose Chavez's reforms are part of the burgeoise. If these reforms benefit the proletariat and the proeletariat knows the burgeoise is against its benefits that may stimulate class awareness in my view.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:43 am

it is revolutionary, in a sense, it is anarcho syndicalism with a party.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:35 am

Hoxhaist wrote:
DeLeonists support electing people who will collapse the government while the proletarians set up a new government based on worker's councils.

Council communists support the workers setting up councils AND abolishing the already existing government, instead of electing people to abolish the government by reforms.

One of the most coherent posts you've ever written I must say.

Basically council communism is the initial concept in which USSR was founded. Совет or Sovyet = Council.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:13 am

Hoxhaist wrote:


If I didn't need my Watermelon account so badly I would be spamming the hell out of this forum.

I know you would if you could.

Wattie wrote:

The Soviet Union was not founded on council communism. The only similarity was the idea of soviets, which never existed with full power in the USSR.

Soviets were stablished prior to the revolution and were the basis for revolutionary activity, they were later disbanded by Stalinism.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:14 pm

beatnikzach wrote:
it is revolutionary, in a sense, it is anarcho syndicalism with a party.
seriosly?
I never thought about it like that.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:15 am

ya mate, thats why i support it, libertarian marxism, and anarcho syndicalism.
and im a former anarchosyndicalist
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:48 am

case and point, DeLeonism wins.
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PostSubject: Re: DeLeonism is inferior to Council Communism   Today at 3:07 pm

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