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 Whole mattabesta issue

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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:48 am

Mattabesta's ban was actually what I call a "democratic excersise".

What do I mean by this? I expected people to act in indignation towards mattabesta's ban for such a reason. I expected people from both right and left to claim it was a blatant infringement of freedom of expression, the thing liberals seem to hold most dear... I expected the motion to be rejected by a vast majourity, perhaps of 70-80% as the poll initially showed.

The action was objectively this:

A blatant violation of freedom of expression by the authority. The symbol could have meant a lot even given the context. For an instance, did you notice the whole swastika was made with "69's"? 69 is the symbol of mutual oral sex, it's a sexual position I can give it two meanings: of satire against nazism, as a reference to Hindu sexuality or both.

The addition of the swastika has been during time of capitalist crisis. Since Fascism is the resource of capitalism against the people during times of crisis and mattabesta is capitalist he probably jokingly made a reference to that.

And, indeed he must have wanted to subtly provoke sensitive leftists like RedSoviet here in the forum, something that happened.

He could have meant a mixture of all the above just to create some controversy, provoke and make fun of totalitarian capitalism and our interpretation of it.

Most probably he was just provoking subtly.

And you know what? It doesn't even fucking matter because regardless of meaning, banning him for that is a violation of freedom of expression. And I really hoped people to point that out. Else he's a guy that has just entered his teens, he may be irritating but he's got a lot to learn, so let him do such silly expressions.

But no... matta's right wing apologists couldn't come up with that... they had to support their apology in phallacies and focus in the meaning of the signature... Really great job (sarcasm). You couldn't simply defend freedom of expression and point out the irrelevance of the symbol... you had to make up a whole story in which mattabesta found enlightment through the teachings of the Vedas...

People wanting mattabesta banned, and left-wing apologists made much better points in defense of mattabesta than you. (not) Amazing.

And now the second result. Unlike what I expected, that most people would defend mattabesta with a relatively solid arguement against such an arbitrary action, lots of people, specially the most progressive in the site and who assumed an objective posture against the motivation to ban mattabesta, voted to keep the motion, meaning mattabesta is seen by many as a problem to this site completely despite that symbol.

Why did I arbitrarily ban mattabesta? Why didn't I warn him? Simple, if I hadn't done it that way it wouldn't have been a real excersise.

I was basically probing this community with an apparently real arbitrary action by the administration.

Conclusions:
1) Most "Liberal" Right-wingers of this site let their guts speak for them while defending their own cause.
2) A lot of progressive people would gladly disregard freedom of speech just to get mattabesta out since they consider him a hindrance.

I was planning to unban mattabesta if the motion got rejected by a 70% and indignation was as expected. Now I'll open a thread to see if people want him back.

I personally would unban him, but enough people seem to have good enough reasons to want him banned and I want this to be discussed and solved by the people.
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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 am

cheers
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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:07 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

1) Most "Liberal" Right-wingers of this site let their guts speak for them while defending their own cause.

Who should he mean -.-"

U could just say my name.

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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:13 pm

CoolKidX wrote:

Who should he mean -.-"

U could just say my name.

And now you're saying you're alone?
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:56 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
CoolKidX wrote:

Who should he mean -.-"

U could just say my name.

And now you're saying you're alone?

Oh nvm Rename is still here Very Happy

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Rename
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:37 pm

CoolKidX wrote:


Oh nvm Rename is still here Very Happy

Im liberal, not Right-winger!
As for the ban, on terms that it should have been voted for, not irrationally.

I would have done the same thing with RedSoviet's avatar if i was admin, so i know how you feel on this issue, I better not restart the whole redsoviet shit.

So im neutral. I do think he needs to be unbanned for such a drastic measure.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:56 pm

Rename wrote:


Im liberal, not Right-winger!
Then what are you doing in the "Liberal Democrat" party? That's a right wing party.

I suggest you fill in your political profile.


Last edited by Zealot_Kommunizma on Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:57 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Rename wrote:


Im liberal, not Right-winger!
Then what are you doing in the "Liberal Democrat" party? That's a right wing party.

His understanding of right and left is diffrent, ask him :3

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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Rename wrote:


Im liberal, not Right-winger!
Then what are you doing in the "Liberal Democrat" party? That's a right wing party.

I suggest you fill in your political profile.

Apparentely i was taught waay different from alot of your scales.
In my school it is the following:
LEFT: Liberals, Democrats, Commies, Socialists, Hippies, (Etc)
RIGHT: Stalinists, fascists, republicans, conservatives.

Usually we don't talk much about the real leftists (Socialists) but more about republican and liberals, in station of Liberals are left and republicans are right. We don't take in to consideration much about other philosophys

Which is why i don't like to be referred to as right, because my views are NONE of stalinists, fascists OR Republicans, its near total opposition.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:15 pm

Rename wrote:


Apparentely i was taught waay different from alot of your scales.
In my school it is the following:
LEFT: Liberals, Democrats, Commies, Socialists, Hippies, (Etc)
RIGHT: Stalinists, fascists, republicans, conservatives.

Usually we don't talk much about the real leftists (Socialists) but more about republican and liberals, in station of Liberals are left and republicans are right. We don't take in to consideration much about other philosophys

Which is why i don't like to be referred to as right, because my views are NONE of stalinists, fascists OR Republicans, its near total opposition.

Here we manage it in the world scale and with a focus towards economy.
Economy goes in the X axis while authoritarism goes in the Y axis.

That is upper left means an extremely leftist economy but managed with authoritarism, that is a leftist dictatorship. An extreme lower right advocates for anarcho-capitalism being completely liberal politically and economically.

Your philosophy fits in the lower right quadrant near the center.
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Rename
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:56 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Here we manage it in the world scale and with a focus towards economy.
Economy goes in the X axis while authoritarism goes in the Y axis.

That is upper left means an extremely leftist economy but managed with authoritarism, that is a leftist dictatorship. An extreme lower right advocates for anarcho-capitalism being completely liberal politically and economically.

Your philosophy fits in the lower right quadrant near the center.

I understand this in the "world scale" as i seen it before, but that is not the way i am currentely being taught in school, shh, you'll confuse me and i'll fail the test Mad
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:36 am

Rename wrote:


I understand this in the "world scale" as i seen it before, but that is not the way i am currentely being taught in school, shh, you'll confuse me and i'll fail the test Mad

Knowledge and criteria vs. brainwash, who will win?

Btw, nice cheftain you got there.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:56 am

He should definitely be unbanned because not only is the original ban is illegitimate but because he has not sufficiently transgressed the rules to a point that would constitute being banned.
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:35 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Knowledge and criteria vs. brainwash, who will win?

Btw, nice cheftain you got there.

Whoever gets a high grade on the test, wins.
and iknorite, tis awesome!
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:56 am

oligarch wrote:
He should definitely be unbanned because not only is the original ban is illegitimate but because he has not sufficiently transgressed the rules to a point that would constitute being banned.

Excellent point oligarch. Lets see if this notion is democratically supported.

Rename, I meant who will win between "Knowledge and Criteria" or "Brainwash".

As for the chieftain, I prefer the Challenger. But wel this is off-topic
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:58 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Rename, I meant who will win between "Knowledge and Criteria" or "Brainwash".

As for the chieftain, I prefer the Challenger. But wel this is off-topic
off-topic:
Knowledge and criteria will fail because the brainwashed victim will be brainwashed, unless their is a way for him to learn the other side open mindly which won't happen if hes continually brainwashed. Like Christian kids, most grew up and became brainwashed forever, but some "rebels" bounced off and overthrew the nike factory.

The Challenger is very nice! But i really liked the color combination in this one. I love tanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:17 am

Lib'ruls are right-wing.
Also, what's the point of an 'authoritarianism' scale on the right half of the x axis? Can't we just assume that everything right is authoritarian? Question
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:58 pm

Stos wrote:
Lib'ruls are right-wing.
Also, what's the point of an 'authoritarianism' scale on the right half of the x axis? Can't we just assume that everything right is authoritarian? Question

I believe it to be much more pragmatic. There's economic left and economic right. And then you got the political "left" and "right". How can a system fit in both left and right namely an authoritarian leftist economy? When you get that you use two axis in your scale. That way the political wings are up and down while economic are left and right.


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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:45 am

Stos wrote:
Lib'ruls are right-wing.
Also, what's the point of an 'authoritarianism' scale on the right half of the x axis? Can't we just assume that everything right is authoritarian? Question
pfft don't be an ass.

money doesn't = power.

right = money

left = equality

top = power

down = freedom

this is just my opinion, and by power I mean unjust political power given by man or "god"
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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:21 am

Liche wrote:
Stos wrote:
Lib'ruls are right-wing.
Also, what's the point of an 'authoritarianism' scale on the right half of the x axis? Can't we just assume that everything right is authoritarian? Question
pfft don't be an ass.

money doesn't = power.

right = money

left = equality

top = power

down = freedom

this is just my opinion, and by power I mean unjust political power given by man or "god"
If down is freedom, then, again, why can't we just assume that everybody to the right side is 'up'?
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:30 pm

Stos wrote:

If down is freedom, then, again, why can't we just assume that everybody to the right side is 'up'?

I wouldn't agree so much with Liche. I'd say left is mre for collectivists and cooperativists while the right is towards individualism, to put it in a simpler way.
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:04 pm

wait...people complained?

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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:02 pm

Diogritor wrote:
wait...people complained?

What do you mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:40 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
wait...people complained?

What do you mean?
Did anyone complain about Mastaspama being banned? I thought the reasoning was a lil weird but I for one am glad he is gone

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PostSubject: Re: Whole mattabesta issue   Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:51 am

There is no valid reason to keep his ban in place, he was only banned to begin with as a sociological experiment Zealot was performing on the userbase.
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