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Rename
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PostSubject: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:00 am

Click Here for original post
Since i can't post in it, ill post in spamistan (Since it would be moved here anyway)
Well i somewhat have a complaint, i agree with Kenzu's idea of dissolving it. It just makes this site more leftist. As an example -

Stos - No, this is where we discuss stuff on socialist theory without capitalists annoying us. Keep it.
Weres the capitalist forum were we discuss stuff without socialists always butting in? Or a rightie forum were they can discuss stuff without us butting it? In terms it just gives leftists more oppurtunities on the site than others. Sure, we get a personal forum. = 1 Forum. Leftists get personal and reolvutionary hall = 2.
1 : 2 Is fair now?

Oli - I agree with with Stos, this section is specifically for discussion of revolutionary theory so making it available to anti-revolutionists would hinder discussion.
I agree that it should be either dissolved, or we should get some also. Not everyone on this forum will contribute generously to revoluntionists, so that means you deserve more than us?

Keep in mind of the vis versa effect.
What if this forum had a category named "Capitalist Hall" were only capitalists could chat, and we bash the theory of commies, while the commies can't fight back because they cant post in it, but they can still see it and get extremely pissed at it.
That's the way i, and most-likely several other non-leftists feel.

When i came to this forum i remember hearing that it was equal, that's what made me come over, now its becoming more like the degenerated forum-state.

Now...let's argue about this, were EVERYONE can post their feelings, not just leftists (Who will obviously want too keep it)


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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:11 am

What can you capitalists argue about? You're happy with the status quo, you got nothing to change, what's the big need of discussing the status quo for you?
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:13 am

Presumably the Pigsty would be dedicated to discussion of things like taxes and the US elections, as well as stupid reactionary bullshit.

Hey, it would be kinda like a zoo... I like zoos. Do it!
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:40 am

I don't think there are enough capitalists who differ significantly enough in ideology to require such a subforum.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:53 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
What can you capitalists argue about? You're happy with the status quo, you got nothing to change, what's the big need of discussing the status quo for you?
Well first off, righties aren't statis quo, so they would need one.
Revoluntionary Hall is not about "arguing" It's about the revolutionary left, and if your a left, most likely you will agree with other leftists over most issues, just as if we had a Capitalist Hall, they would agree on some/most issues. Which is why it's near completely useless, that is what the personal forums are for, your just giving more of a advantage to commies and pissing others off because we can't fight the things you post in there.
What can capitalist talk about?
-China, North Korea, Nepal, Laos, Cuba, Vietnam.
-Monarchy.
-The threat of Fascism, Bonapartism, and even National Socialism.
-Ideals on debating others on this forum/anywere.
-US economical crisis and how/what to blame.
-World stock market crashes.
-Capitalists crazy for oil.
-Presidents, Prime ministers agreements/non agreements.
-Russia threat/Not a threat.
How far do i have to go to prove my point, that we won't run out of ideas?

oligarch wrote:
I don't think there are enough capitalists who differ significantly enough in ideology to require such a subforum.
Which is why my main ideal is to dissolve it. IT gives more rights to commies, and their really aren't enough otherwise, but that still doesn't mean leftists deserve more than us, i thought communism, was free, equal society? Not commies get more.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:24 am

Rename wrote:

Which is why my main ideal is to dissolve it. IT gives more rights to commies, and their really aren't enough otherwise, but that still doesn't mean leftists deserve more than us, i thought communism, was free, equal society? Not commies get more.

Revolutionary Hall is largely for discussion of revolutionary theory which is where many people on the radical left have different ideas and does not apply to right of far-left. There is nothing about the topics you mentioned which exclusively relate the the right-wing and can just as easily be discussed in any other section.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:57 am

Oligarch summarized it.

There are different currents and methods to reach revolution and we need a place to discuss them and see wether we can get to a consensus or not.

It is to discuss revolution, what's the point of letting in those who in the first place don't want revolution? It's for those of us who consider revolution necesary and who now want to get to consensus on the best way to achieve it, as simple as that.

All the topics you mentioned are not capitalist-exclusive topics and they can be talked about anywhere on this site as Oligarch pointed out already.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:10 pm

Rename gots some damn good reasons why rev-hall shouldnt be there!

IF you want to discuss only with revltioneries go make another forum damn it!

But ofcourse by equal lefties mean equal only for lefites.

So yea i doubt rev-hall would go somewere else, zealut = admin, nothing will change if its in his favor.

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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:26 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Rename gots some damn good reasons why rev-hall shouldnt be there!
Not really.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:35 pm

Evidently you got no clue on what unequalty is.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:38 pm

we need a place only for leftwings. and a place only for rightwings.
and a place for only revolutionarys. and a place for only reactionarys.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:39 pm

Tyrlop wrote:
we need a place only for leftwings. and a place only for rightwings.

There are a bunch.

Tyrlop wrote:

and a place for only revolutionarys. and a place for only reactionarys.

What are reactionaries going to talk about?
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:44 pm

reactionarys can talk alot of stuff, like how they would like to smash a socialists head with a fist and how srong they are and how much drugs they like to take etc. revolutionarys can talk about how much they want to throw the government out with a revolution and etc.


about the left and right. i mean where all leftish can talk not in the small partys but actually all of them from social democrat to communist,
and rightish the other way.
i would like to have this, and where the rightish cant read our post. i dont like they read my posts.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:55 pm

Tyrlop wrote:
reactionarys can talk alot of stuff, like how they would like to smash a socialists head with a fist and how srong they are and how much drugs they like to take etc. revolutionarys can talk about how much they want to throw the government out with a revolution and etc.

There's more to it than that.

It's not like it is a forum where revolutionaries can go and say "LOL we want revolution". Is a transparent forum for people to see our revolutionary intentions.

Tyrlop wrote:

about the left and right. i mean where all leftish can talk not in the small partys but actually all of them from social democrat to communist,
and rightish the other way.
i would like to have this, and where the rightish cant read our post. i dont like they read my posts.

*rightist, leftist

Most people that follow right wing ideologies do so because of ignorance and because it's the current status quo and they're too lazy to think or even more fight for a change. We socialists have the goal to educate people and to allow right-wingers to have a solid position against us, that means, if they're going to be against us, at least they should know what we stand for.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:05 pm

ye ok, but i wanted a place where i could talk with all the leftish with out getting spammed by CKX and other people with diffrent oppinions.
a place were you dont have to be revolutionary. plaease ask some more if u dont understand, im not that good at explaining.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:06 pm

Tyrlop wrote:
ye ok, but i wanted a place where i could talk with all the leftish with out getting spammed by CKX and other people with diffrent oppinions.
a place were you dont have to be revolutionary. plaease ask some more if u dont understand, im not that good at explaining.

I get you perfectly, I thought of it also. But i'd like that place to be transparent.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:09 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Tyrlop wrote:
ye ok, but i wanted a place where i could talk with all the leftish with out getting spammed by CKX and other people with diffrent oppinions.
a place were you dont have to be revolutionary. plaease ask some more if u dont understand, im not that good at explaining.

I get you perfectly, I thought of it also. But i'd like that place to be transparent.
well then make so other people can read it too, maybe? Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:11 pm

Tyrlop wrote:

well then make so other people can read it too, maybe? Sad

That's what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:11 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Oligarch summarized it.

There are different currents and methods to reach revolution and we need a place to discuss them and see wether we can get to a consensus or not.

It is to discuss revolution, what's the point of letting in those who in the first place don't want revolution? It's for those of us who consider revolution necesary and who now want to get to consensus on the best way to achieve it, as simple as that.

All the topics you mentioned are not capitalist-exclusive topics and they can be talked about anywhere on this site as Oligarch pointed out already.

1/ What about our "currents and methods" to prevent a revolution and/or start a revolution in a communistic society? Just, unimportant?

2/Again, what about the people that do not want a revolution as you describe it, but could hit the nail on a revolution in a communistic society and/or ways to stop revolutions/fight lefties. Wouldn't we need to conesensus on the best way to prevent a revolution etc?

3/ All the ones in Revolutionary hall could be talked about elsewhere too? They would just be debated with others, instead, just like ours are. We can't nessecarily post something somewhere and magically hope enemies of our POV won't come in and debate against us. Im sure you could talk about how to achieve a revolution in the US in a politic forum, just like we could talk about how to achieve a revolution in China in a politic forum, the fact of the matter is, it just gives revolutionary more places to talk and have begun to limit us.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:10 pm

Rename wrote:



1/ What about our "currents and methods" to prevent a revolution
It's part of your everyday practice, of the actual scholar system everywhere, of the mass media, of religious organizations. All of that has been, is and can be discussed anywhere because its part of the status quo.

The whole globalization, the whole consumerist culture, the whole capitalist system does as much efforts as possible to prevent revolution on an everyday basis and that's what we talk about on most of the forum (when adressing social matters).

Rename wrote:

and/or start a revolution in a communistic society? Just, unimportant?

Once communist revolution is achieved it is unstopabble and absolutely irreversible unless you destroy the working force in which case you would practice a seppuku. You can't expect a handful of guys to fool workers into wage slavery once they've freed themselves from it. Disregarding this would show you have a lack of understanding on what communism stands for thus depriving you from your right to criticize or demolish its thesis until you finally understand what it stands for.

Rename wrote:

2/Again, what about the people that do not want a revolution as you describe it, but could hit the nail on a revolution in a communistic society and/or ways to stop revolutions/fight lefties. Wouldn't we need to conesensus on the best way to prevent a revolution etc?

This point has been adressed above. It's the everyday practice of the ruling class, we discuss it where we discuss news, we discuss it where we discuss history and politics, we dicuss it everywhere on this site.

Rename wrote:

3/ All the ones in Revolutionary hall could be talked about elsewhere too? They would just be debated with others, instead, just like ours are.

The premise of the revolutionary hall is the next:

Revolution is necesary, now how to achieve it?

We don't even need left reformists there because they think revolution is not necesary. We need contributions to revolutionary movement there instead of guys randomly coming and saying "we don't need revolution!". That's what you do everywhere else.

By defending the status quo you're intrinsically opposing revolution so why would you discuss about revolution? You got nothing to discuss about it except that you don't want or need it, nothing more. It's obvious that it's not benefic for reactionaires since it's intended to precisely overthrow them.

Rename wrote:

We can't nessecarily post something somewhere and magically hope enemies of our POV won't come in and debate against us.

And what do you mean by this huh? That's what debate is about, that's what you come to a forum for. However, a forum has subforums.

If you get to a subforum about cinema and all you got to say is "I don't like cinema" then why do you even enter that subforum in the first place? To bash those who like cinema? If you enter a subforum about sports and all you got to say is "I don't like sports" why do you enter that subforum in the first place?

There are topic-focused subforums and it doesn't make sense to enter them if you got nothing to say about it except "this shouldn't be".

Rename wrote:

Im sure you could talk about how to achieve a revolution in the US in a politic forum, just like we could talk about how to achieve a revolution in China in a politic forum,
You seem to imply China is communist or is in our side or something like that. Just so you know, China is not communist. There are no communist countries yet.

Rename wrote:
the fact of the matter is, it just gives revolutionary more places to talk and have begun to limit us.

We need a place where we can talk about revolution without reactionaires spamming. That's right, spamming. You don't want to change the system, fine, keep it, we revolutionaires want to change it. There's nothing to discuss about it.

Now, you want a place where you can discuss about capitalism without leftists telling you it should be changed? Then why would you join a forum that has left wingers in it then?

There is Left and right. Right wants to preserve the status quo and left wants to change it. Right is not concerned about changing the system and right is not devided by economic factors, just political, they part from the same economic ideology and they got nothing to discuss about changing the economic system. They may disagree on certain personal freedoms, on wether more or less capital should be diverted to welafare, wether there should be subsidized education and health or not, but all in all they agree on one thing: the economic system is capitalism and it doesn't need to be changed.

And when you disagree on things like personal freedoms and so it's just matter of conviction. A republican will never convince a liberal capitalist that abortion is wrong and a liberal capitalist won't convince the republican abortion is a right intrinsic to women. Is there a point in debating that then? No. A republican may think that government shall have as few intervention as possible while a democrat may think government should subsidize education. They won't agree. As simple as that.

The left is far more complex. You get Revolutionaries and reformists, authoritarians and liberals. You get different economic perspectives.

Reformists think capitalism can gradually evolve into communism, revolutionaries argue capitalism is unreformable and it has to be changed utterely. Among thos revolutionaries you get more divisions, those that think change must be quick but must employ a brief time of ultra regulated capitalism and others that think capitalism has to be completely overthrown and immediately suplanted.

Then among revolutionaries you get another division, authoritarians and liberals. There are some that argue that there should be a temporal state in order to reach communism while others think communism doesn't require state in any stage. There are revolutionaries that completely agree on the economic system that should substitute capitalism but greatly differ on the way to achieve it.

The point is simple, you capitalists have nothing to reach, all you got is diferent views on how to manage capitalism. We revolutionaries have a single goal but very different ways on how to get to it, from employing capitalism to sudden revolution, from centralised to decentraliced ways of management. We have to get to a consensus while you don't. We have to choose the best way to our common goal while you simply have different views on which is te best way to manage capitalism, a system that already exists.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:20 pm

omg huge post dont have time to reply atm
reserve spot
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:35 am

Hoxhaist wrote:
THE GOAL FOR THE CAPITALISTS IS TO DEFEND THE SYSTEM AGAINST

whoops sory i forgot to turn caps off, anyway


the goal for the capies is to defend capitalism against eveil revlutianaries, they have to discuss there methods for doing this. it wil be a tough battel, but we nede to discuss it so we can find the right way to defeat the comies in battel for sicety,

your spelling is worse than mine, but good point
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:41 pm

Sill are you Socialist or Capitalist?
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:55 pm

Liche wrote:
Sill are you Socialist or Capitalist?
Sill's capitalist.
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PostSubject: Re: Revoluntionary Hall   Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:59 pm

Liche wrote:
Sill are you Socialist or Capitalist?

that is impossible to answer. Im currentely in the bonaparty group, because so far of looking into it i like it, but seeing as though i used to be semi-national socialist, i still hold onto socialism, but i do endore capitalism because it HAS worked, but i think we can go better than just average. So i guess in a sense, im a supporter of socialism and capitalism.
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