Should I join komsomol?

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:29 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Kenzu wrote:: A country which is heavily regulated by the government with a huge tax and a strong social welfare program for all citizens is not what capitalism is. Private ownership and profits alone are no sign for capitalism. Capitalism is characterised by exploitation of workers. The less exploitation exists, the smaller the income disparity between the poor and rich, the less capitalist, the more socialist it becomes.

Indeed, workers' exploitation is one of the main charactersitics of capitalism but is not the only one. For capitalism to exist there must be a capital to be invested as motor of the economy and that requires to be increased as part of economic development. That is, even USSR was capitalist. Why? Because it relied on a capital to work a capital it failed to consistently increase.

It's not like a country can be 60% socialist and 40% capitalist. It's not that USSR was 99% socialist. Either it is a capitalist economy or it is a socialist economy. Period. Arguably USSR was a "socialist-tending" State capitalism in that it employed most of the capital into social projects but it was still capitalism.

Capital is a good, which has been produced in order to produce other goods. Machines, production facilities, tools, all of them are capital. You cannot produce most industrial goods without capital. In order to produce wealth at a higher speed, investment in capital is necessary. In fact, without investment in capital, soon the existent capital would become old and would stop working. I can't imagine how a country could work without heavy industry, which is an industry where capital produces other capital. What you are saying is that truly socialist countries don't invest resources into capital. Capital are goods, which produce other goods. If a country wouldn't invest in capital, production of goods would stop. Even farmers need capital to be able to plow their land and harvest their crops.

I think we both can agree that we can't agree on this matter

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:26 am

Kenzu wrote:: Capital is a good, which has been produced in order to produce other goods. Machines, production facilities, tools, all of them are capital. You cannot produce most industrial goods without capital. In order to produce wealth at a higher speed, investment in capital is necessary. In fact, without investment in capital, soon the existent capital would become old and would stop working. I can't imagine how a country could work without heavy industry, which is an industry where capital produces other capital. What you are saying is that truly socialist countries don't invest resources into capital. Capital are goods, which produce other goods. If a country wouldn't invest in capital, production of goods would stop. Even farmers need capital to be able to plow their land and harvest their crops.

I think we both can agree that we can't agree on this matter

The definition of capital is not limited to "goods that produce goods". What you're talking about are merely the means of production.

Socialism works with means of production but without capital.

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:03 am

- Communism is an utopia based on material equality between everyone where the government is the population itself. It also promotes collectivism
(I tried to make it very neutral...)

- Capitalism is a silly system based on capitals that cannot work without exploitation. This system follows human's evolution rate (which is still low in my views). However, it promotes individualism .
(I didn't try to be neutral. )

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:46 pm

Lilith wrote:: - Communism is an utopia based on material equality between everyone where the government is the population itself. It also promotes collectivism
(I tried to make it very neutral...)

I didn't grasp your point very well, would you elaborate a bit?

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:11 pm

Lilith wrote:: - Communism is an utopia based on material equality between everyone where the government is the population itself. It also promotes collectivism
(I tried to make it very neutral...)

- Capitalism is a silly system based on capitals that cannot work without exploitation. This system follows human's evolution rate (which is still low in my views). However, it promotes individualism .
(I didn't try to be neutral. )

human evolution:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Population_curve.svg
capitalism grows slow dosn't it?

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:36 pm

mattabesta wrote:

Lilith wrote:: - Communism is an utopia based on material equality between everyone where the government is the population itself. It also promotes collectivism
(I tried to make it very neutral...)

- Capitalism is a silly system based on capitals that cannot work without exploitation. This system follows human's evolution rate (which is still low in my views). However, it promotes individualism .
(I didn't try to be neutral. )

human evolution:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Population_curve.svg
capitalism grows slow dosn't it?

compared to full speed communism in working society (isolted) yep.

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:38 pm

my main problem with communism is the anti-individualism part Mad

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:20 am

Liche wrote:: my main problem with communism is the anti-individualism part

And can you describe it at all?

Subject: Re: Should I join komsomol? Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:58 pm

Lilith wrote:: - Communism is an utopia based on material equality between everyone where the government is the population itself. It also promotes collectivism
(I tried to make it very neutral...)

- Capitalism is a silly system based on capitals that cannot work without exploitation. This system follows human's evolution rate (which is still low in my views). However, it promotes individualism .
(I didn't try to be neutral. )

13.5 + 4 = 17.5
17.5 points out of 20

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