World Republic
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
World Republic

Uniting All People!
 
HomeHome  SearchSearch  Latest imagesLatest images  RegisterRegister  Log in  

 

 True Government

Go down 
+5
Kenzu
Lilith
Liche
CoolKidX
comrade110397
9 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
calinis
Experienced Party Member



Posts : 966
Join date : 2008-06-26
Age : 28

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 5:31 am

Quote :
Calinis, check the library.

Books are much more reliable then the internet.

Check the source. It is written by university professors. It is an article within the American Economic Association.
Back to top Go down
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 5:35 am

I hope you're sure that you read what you referenced. For an instance, why would I think CIA is reliable in that case? After all their objective is not precisely to say the truth about USSR.

Else, note that said study is limited to until 1962 and that it mainly addresses post war USSR... taking into account nearly 15-18% of the soviet population died during WWII would you expect industrial output to skyrocket?

Else that study doesn't specify.

Yet, USSR industrial output from late 60's until late 80's was far superior to that of US of course is prime important produce.
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
calinis
Experienced Party Member



Posts : 966
Join date : 2008-06-26
Age : 28

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 5:43 am

You do realize that the Soviet Union had a substantially larger population and area than the US right? Even then, it didn't produce nearly as much as the the US. Also you know people could be manipulating their quotas so the numbers may not be accurate.
Back to top Go down
comrade110397
New Party Member
comrade110397


Posts : 569
Join date : 2008-11-11
Age : 38
Location : IDK

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 6:05 am

The only reason the soviet union failed is because of lack of resources. If the soviet union was in north america, it would have prospered. the only way to over come this obsticle is to establish a world republic. with the entire world, there would not be a lack of resources. eventually we can establish a pure marxist society.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com
comrade110397
New Party Member
comrade110397


Posts : 569
Join date : 2008-11-11
Age : 38
Location : IDK

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 6:09 am

calinis has some well founded views. i dont know why so many people are aganist him.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 7:06 am

calinis wrote:
You do realize that the Soviet Union had a substantially larger population and area than the US right?

Population was larger by a ratio of 1.3-1.4. Size was 2.4 times that of USA. So?
calinis wrote:

Even then, it didn't produce nearly as much as the the US.

From where do you take that failed information? That source you gave? It proves absolutely nothing.

For example, accoridng to british researchers USSR's 1988 Steel production doubled that of USA.

calinis wrote:
Also you know people could be manipulating their quotas so the numbers may not be accurate.

You cannot manipulate quotas that easily you know? There is a person called engineer which calculates the ammount of resources needed to get something done. You cannot say you produced more when you have less than required, as simple as that.

calinis wrote:
The only reason the soviet union failed is because of lack of resources. If the soviet union was in north america, it would have prospered. the only way to over come this obsticle is to establish a world republic. with the entire world, there would not be a lack of resources. eventually we can establish a pure marxist society.

So you're going to say that the country with the largest forests, with an ammount of arable land more than half the size of USA and with the 3rd largest reserves of oil lacked resources?

That who doesn't see this is clear trolling deserves to be smacked very, very hard.
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
calinis
Experienced Party Member



Posts : 966
Join date : 2008-06-26
Age : 28

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 8:18 am

"U.S. specialists calculated that between 1961 and 1965 the annual increase of gross national product (GNP) in the U.S.S.R. slowed to 5 percent, industrial output to 6.6 percent, and agricultural growth to 2.8 percent"

So it was even worse after the immediate effects of the war? Why?

"The Soviet Union wasted its resources because the success indicator for Soviet managers allowed them to be successful even though their output was poorly related to the needs of users. Soviet output basically satisfied no one but the statistician measuring it."

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=7247663122474n85&size=larger

I know this is difficult to read, but look at the chart. There goes the sharp economic turn right up to the late 1980's.

I also find it rather ironic that the so-called best economic advance was during the capitalist policies of Khruschev and the subsequent leaders, even Gorbachev, who you would undeniably acredit with being capitalist. Most soviet sympathizers would say that post-Stalin era was surely more capitalist than what would be the inefficencies of collective agriculture, etc in the early part of soviet economic development. So to say that the Soviet Union advanced economically in the 1960's-1980's when more and more of the economy was slowly being opened to markets illustrates the inefficency of the command mechanism.
Back to top Go down
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 12, 2008 5:48 pm

calinis wrote:
"U.S. specialists calculated that between 1961 and 1965 the annual increase of gross national product (GNP) in the U.S.S.R. slowed to 5 percent, industrial output to 6.6 percent, and agricultural growth to 2.8 percent"

Calculated based on what?

calinis wrote:

So it was even worse after the immediate effects of the war? Why?

Common sense should help you understand.

calinis wrote:

"The Soviet Union wasted its resources because the success indicator for Soviet managers allowed them to be successful even though their output was poorly related to the needs of users. Soviet output basically satisfied no one but the statistician measuring it."

And this is relevant to the discussion because? This

calinis wrote:

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=7247663122474n85&size=larger

I know this is difficult to read, but look at the chart. There goes the sharp economic turn right up to the late 1980's.

Yeah, very complete source indeed (sarcasm intended). By the way it's just for two years, funny enough precisely the period in which the Afghanistan war started.

calinis wrote:

I also find it rather ironic that the so-called best economic advance was during the capitalist policies of Khruschev and the subsequent leaders, even Gorbachev, who you would undeniably acredit with being capitalist.

USSR was always capitalist, don't forget it. The reason for those increases in "economic advance" are due to less investment in military. The peak of USSR's military investment after WWII was from 1968 to 1985 that indeed diverts productivity from other industrial sectors.

It has nothing to do with capitalism or communism since actually just the former was applied in the USSR with varying focuses.

calinis wrote:

Most soviet sympathizers would say that post-Stalin era was surely more capitalist than what would be the inefficencies of collective agriculture, etc in the early part of soviet economic development.

Which would be an ignorant assertion given the fact USSR was always capitalist. Else, one of the main flaws of Stalinist agricultural projects was his sheer dismisal of proven agricultural research by following Lisenko's flawed agricultural theories. Of course who cares about those facts? It's just easier to blame just collectivisation and stain the name of communism as much as possible.

calinis wrote:

So to say that the Soviet Union advanced economically in the 1960's-1980's when more and more of the economy was slowly being opened to markets illustrates the inefficency of the command mechanism.

It actually illustrates the inefficiency of a non-profit oriented kind of capitalism.

Yet nowhere does this disprove the fact that USSR's industrial output in many key resources was much greater than that of USA. And its industrial potencial was even much higher than that.
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Black_Cross


Posts : 1702
Join date : 2008-04-04
Age : 35
Location : Sisyphean Hell

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 1:01 am

Kenzu wrote:
I personally think the police force is acutally very useful! They seem to be doing much more good work than bad deeds! At least that's my impression.

Liche wrote:
Yes, police are good! With out them there would be much more corruption and crime.

... This is the minority i speak of. The leftists who favor the police...
Back to top Go down
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 1:06 am

Black_Cross wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
I personally think the police force is acutally very useful! They seem to be doing much more good work than bad deeds! At least that's my impression.

Liche wrote:
Yes, police are good! With out them there would be much more corruption and crime.

... This is the minority i speak of. The leftists who favor the police...

Specially when claiming to be anarchist... right?
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
calinis
Experienced Party Member



Posts : 966
Join date : 2008-06-26
Age : 28

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 1:15 am

Quote :
... This is the minority i speak of. The leftists who favor the police...

Oh, it's much better if the rapists and murderers continue doing what they enjoy doing. They need freedom too, you know! Rolling Eyes
Back to top Go down
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 1:26 am

calinis wrote:
Quote :
... This is the minority i speak of. The leftists who favor the police...

Oh, it's much better if the rapists and murderers continue doing what they enjoy doing. They need freedom too, you know! Rolling Eyes

Another strawman fallacy. For an instance the end of capitalism wopuld dramatically diminish said phenomena. But not only that, the rapist or murdered would be judged by all the community.
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
comrade110397
New Party Member
comrade110397


Posts : 569
Join date : 2008-11-11
Age : 38
Location : IDK

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 2:12 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Another strawman fallacy. For an instance the end of capitalism wopuld dramatically diminish said phenomena. But not only that, the rapist or murdered would be judged by all the community.
Oh if only that could be done..... These days we rely on a court system. The community would usually be split on what to do. That is why it might not work.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 4:14 am

comrade110397 wrote:

Oh if only that could be done..... These days we rely on a court system. The community would usually be split on what to do. That is why it might not work.

I guess people are absolutely unable to understand simple things and moreover take action, right?
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
comrade110397
New Party Member
comrade110397


Posts : 569
Join date : 2008-11-11
Age : 38
Location : IDK

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 4:20 am

No, one person is capable of making choices. If you have a entire community, people disagree and cant efficently make decisions as a group.
Back to top Go down
https://www.youtube.com
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic



Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 35
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 4:30 am

comrade110397 wrote:
No, one person is capable of making choices. If you have a entire community, people disagree and cant efficently make decisions as a group.

Yeah, that's the reason things like language and science exist... because it's just utterely impossible for people to agree on anything.
Back to top Go down
http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Sponsored content





True Government - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: True Government   True Government - Page 2 Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
True Government
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» privatisation
» Radical Government Over through
» The true evil that haunts this world.
» No really, it's true. We throw our elderly off ice cliffs.
» Your ideal form of government ?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
World Republic :: Republic Square :: Political Profile-
Jump to: