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Zeronos
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nillerz
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nillerz


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PostSubject: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 4:35 am

I consider myself super-capitalist. The free market should only be restricted when they are breaking laws in the same way a citizen is. For example, no matter how rich a corporation is it should not be permitted to murder someone or hurt them in other physical ways.

I see capitalism as the great exposer, you can tell someones worth by how well they do in a capitalist society. I also believe that wheras men may be born equal and should remain equal in the eyes of the local law enforcement and court systems, they are not equal in life and do not deserve anything that they can't get for themselves. I am willing to put my own neck out for this system, I believe that if I do not contribute to society then I won't be as happy with my life. I will not have as much money, I will have money issues and probably problems in other areas in life. By working hard, being smart, and playing my cards right I can improve my position in life and in the process improve the positions of others whome I employ.

I am not a fan of communism as I mostly see it as lazy people theiving what they want to have but cannot work for and using the idea of equality to justify it. Instead of turning this greed into ambition and working harder and more hours and investing wisely, they simply hold a violent uprising and make those that have worked for what they own give up what is rightfully theirs.

Federal Government should not do anything other than provide a militia for the protection of the nationm and print official notes. State government should do nothing but handle law-breakers that murder, rape, and steal. If the local governments elect to have them do so, state government should also handle road systems. Local governments get to be anal, and so long as most things are pulled off democratically (or whatever system the inhabitants of that locality prefer) can take away rights in the interest of the nation. I believe only LOCAL government has this priveledge because it is easier to sway the votes of those in a local area than in a large area, and requires less monetary investment, if any.

In the case of disaster, Federal and State governments should be allowed to step in and do something. This is not the case for "Wow, economy is collapsing!" but instead for things like "Wow, there's a forest fire and a hurricane-snowstorm with tornadoes and plague over there!" This doesn't fall into the realme of regulation but instead the realme of humanity, but should only be done in extreme cases where the local populace is incapable of helping themselves. If a small town is flooded, small town government deals with it, not federal government. If New Orleans is sinking then yes, by all means, send in the National Guard.

If anyone has any questions I will be happy to answer them.
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oligarch
Chairman of the WR Committee
oligarch


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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 5:12 am

With out a powerful governemnt, how do expect to keep corporations in line and protect the rights individuals?
Furthermore, what rights do you think individuals are entitled to? You said only said capitalists should not be able to physically harm people, do you think the capitalist class should be able to arbitrate what rights people have?
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 5:23 am

Super Citizen Power of course. If a corporation starts being a bit to power-grabby, boycott their ass. They follow the dollar and the dollar is in the hands of the citizen.

Peoples rights are pretty much whatever doesn't harm other people. You can do whatever you want to yourself and your property but do not damage another person or their property. Also,the right to vote, right to free speech, etc. Pretty much just don't kill each other or steal. Corporations have the same rights as citizens but don't have an electoral vote.
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Liche
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Liche


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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 5:59 am

.....NILLERZ!!!!

anyways, I think your the only die-hard capitalist on the site, good look with the whole preaching of your capitalist dogma!
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nillerz
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nillerz


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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 6:50 am

yeah all the usergroups are like, leftist whatnots. Theres "Conservative Republican" and "Liberal Republican" (the latter of which is an oxymoron) but neither describe me at all. Also could someone explain the difference between "Social Democrat" and "Liberal Democrat"?
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oligarch
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oligarch


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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 8:24 am

nillerz wrote:
Super Citizen Power of course. If a corporation starts being a bit to power-grabby, boycott their ass. They follow the dollar and the dollar is in the hands of the citizen.

It is the natural progression of unregulated capitalism to gradually monopolize. Banking capital and industrial capital are fused together to create finance capital which is controlled by financial institutions, namely banks. These institutions form consortiums and all begin participating in each other. Eventually, all finance capital, and by extension, all banking and industry, and by extension the entire economy will be controlled by one, single collective capitalist.

Quote :
Peoples rights are pretty much whatever doesn't harm other people.

How will a weak government protect the rights of the people from corporations?

[quote]You can do whatever you want to yourself and your property but do not damage another person or their property. /quote]
You won't have property, it will all belong to banks etc.
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 3:10 pm

oligarch wrote:
nillerz wrote:
Super Citizen Power of course. If a corporation starts being a bit to power-grabby, boycott their ass. They follow the dollar and the dollar is in the hands of the citizen.

It is the natural progression of unregulated capitalism to gradually monopolize. Banking capital and industrial capital are fused together to create finance capital which is controlled by financial institutions, namely banks. These institutions form consortiums and all begin participating in each other. Eventually, all finance capital, and by extension, all banking and industry, and by extension the entire economy will be controlled by one, single collective capitalist.
Corporations need you more than you need them. The services provided by industrial growth aren't necessary for life, people live very happily. Ask those who affiliate with the green party. Not only can you live happily without corporate backing, but you can live healthily without it too.

Also, in the event of a monopoly, one must ask "How essential is this service" and "How easy would it be to undercut the service". Lets say that Microsoft actually HAD a monopoly (they never really did... they just got raped by technicalities). There are alternatives, they can't prevent you from coding your own OS. If you market that OS then you are competition and they need to obey the laws of the land and not kill you.If they want to survive they need to be a better choice for the consumer. The consumer is always right. If your product sucks in comparison to Windows, then you may just end up not being in business. Windows has to keep its end of the deal going though, and has to provide a decent OS, or at least decent enough for you to pay for it.

I use Linux. Woo!

Quote :
Quote :
Peoples rights are pretty much whatever doesn't harm other people.

How will a weak government protect the rights of the people from corporations?
By using tax dollars to prosecute corporations who impose on citizens rights. If a company starts dumping toxic waste into a private fishing stream, they should be sued for damages. If they are killing people who don't buy their product, those in charge should be jailed. I am not an anarchist, I believe in a small amount of taxation for services that take care of criminals. Corporations that restrict the rights of the populace are criminals and shoudl be treated like criminals.


If the corporation gets crazy strong and wages war on the government in some dystopian sci-fi dream, then wow... uh... guess it's time for a revolution. Pity...

Quote :
Quote :
You can do whatever you want to yourself and your property but do not damage another person or their property.
You won't have property, it will all belong to banks etc.

Not if you don't give it to the banks. Corporations aren't magic, they can't seize land in the same way the government does.

At any rate, a strong company is better than a strong government. You can't boycott the government, they can send you to jail for disobeying them. Companies are a different matter. Sure, they can cancel your service but they can't take away your freedom, they can't take away anything you didn't sign away.
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CoolKidX
Chairman of the Supreme Council
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 13, 2008 5:11 pm

Nillerz you how did you came back?
When i came you wasnt on for months..
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 14, 2008 3:29 am

WEll, if I remember correctly I said something along the lines of "Kill a couple commies" and people went apeshit.
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Stos
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 14, 2008 12:44 pm

nillerz wrote:
Super Citizen Power of course. If a corporation starts being a bit to power-grabby, boycott their ass. They follow the dollar and the dollar is in the hands of the citizen.
Oh, sorry, I thought that we were talking about real workers with real needs all of a sudden. Sad
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revolution
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 14, 2008 10:01 pm

nillerz wrote:
WEll, if I remember correctly I said something along the lines of "Kill a couple commies" and people went apeshit.

We're gonna have some fun with you man.
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nillerz
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nillerz


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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeFri Nov 14, 2008 11:22 pm

Stos wrote:
nillerz wrote:
Super Citizen Power of course. If a corporation starts being a bit to power-grabby, boycott their ass. They follow the dollar and the dollar is in the hands of the citizen.
Oh, sorry, I thought that we were talking about real workers with real needs all of a sudden. Sad
Workers should strike if being treated unfairly. They should keep in mind, however, if they're not willing to work then others may be. Best to unionize if you want to strike.

Also, from the look of things I'll be killing a couple islamo-fascists, not commies. I'm a member of the US Army NG and war with Korea seems possible but not likely.
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enviro
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeSun Nov 16, 2008 9:19 pm

nillerez man you back
i think capitalism can and will work(alhthought not dissing socialsim)
we will be great friends
or i will hate you
your choice
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Zeronos
ZEK in siberian gulag
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeSun Nov 16, 2008 10:06 pm

nillerz wrote:
yeah all the usergroups are like, leftist whatnots. Theres "Conservative Republican" and "Liberal Republican" (the latter of which is an oxymoron) but neither describe me at all. Also could someone explain the difference between "Social Democrat" and "Liberal Democrat"?

Liberal Republicans would be libertarians or centrists, I assume. Social democracy is Labour Party-style doctrine. Liberal Democrats are just that, liberals who are Democrats.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 17, 2008 1:50 am

Liberal Republicans aren't Libertarians...

there more old school republican, just the republican views have changed drastically over the years.
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 17, 2008 5:16 am

Libertarian =/= liberal. I know, they sound the same, but they're totally different ideologies.Libertarians believe that one should be able to do as they please so long as they don't hurt others. They support low taxes and freedom-based government that simply protects people and what people own frombeing hurt by others. They are generally usually minarchists in aspects of taxation, seeing taxes (quite correctly) as a necessary evil in order to keep the government functional but not one that needs to be abused through heavy taxation (the definition of heavy ranges between those who define it)
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 17, 2008 3:52 pm

nillerz wrote:
\They are generally usually minarchists in aspects of taxation, seeing taxes (quite correctly) as a necessary evil in order to keep the government functional but not one that needs to be abused through heavy taxation (the definition of heavy ranges between those who define it)

I've not met a single Libertarian or Market Anarchist that hasn't told me that they think that taxes are pure evil and are unnecessary and that the system either should not exist or should be completely voluntary.

Then again, maybe these guys are just really extreme.
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 17, 2008 10:09 pm

WeiWuWei wrote:
nillerz wrote:
\They are generally usually minarchists in aspects of taxation, seeing taxes (quite correctly) as a necessary evil in order to keep the government functional but not one that needs to be abused through heavy taxation (the definition of heavy ranges between those who define it)

I've not met a single Libertarian or Market Anarchist that hasn't told me that they think that taxes are pure evil and are unnecessary and that the system either should not exist or should be completely voluntary.

Then again, maybe these guys are just really extreme.
Minarchy means that they believe taxes are a NECESSARY evil. I think you read it wrong or took that as a typo or something.

Most libertarians acknowledge that taxation is sorta against the basic philosophies concerning libertarianism but are willing to go with it anyway because government will not function without taxpayer support.
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeMon Nov 17, 2008 10:15 pm

nillerz wrote:
Minarchy means that they believe taxes are a NECESSARY evil. I think you read it wrong or took that as a typo or something.

Most libertarians acknowledge that taxation is sorta against the basic philosophies concerning libertarianism but are willing to go with it anyway because government will not function without taxpayer support.

Yeah, I saw the "necessary" part in your post. I'm just saying, most Libertarians I've met tell me that they would rather just get rid of the tax system; their favorite thing to tell me is that our current tax system is inherently violent.

Again, like I said, these guys are probably extreme.
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeTue Nov 18, 2008 12:06 am

They're definately less extreme than anarchists, at any rate. Maybe they'd prefer a different sort of tax system. Taxes could be streamlined or maybe made more fair, for example income tax is fucking retarded or something, it's just punishment for being succesful. Property tax is also retarded.

I think the best system would be a system that asks "Do you use this service?" Then it would ask "How much?" Then it would say "You pay ___ in taxes." This would decrease dependancy on the government to get certain things done, and allow people to see what demanding more services does to tax rates by experiencing it first-hand. A drawback I see is the government being free to do more based on that fact. For example, it could start charging me for having my house be up to the local zoning regulations. It's an idea, if not exactly a good one...

Currently 10 percent of the American population describes themselves as Libertarian.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 20, 2008 3:35 am

I'm guessing the 1% includes me and Chaddy?


I would say AT MOST 35% of Americans are fat and ignorant.
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeThu Nov 20, 2008 4:08 am

Your statement is only valid if it's true that 0 percent of the American population describes themselves as fat and retarded. Currently, the number that does is much higher. At any rate, what are you trying to say, that more than 10 percent are libertarian? Seriously, if someone says they are libertarian I guess they be libertarian. Razz
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enviro
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeSun Nov 23, 2008 2:19 am

just to fill you it
emy is mattabesta
emy and mattabesta and WATERMELON and hoxhaist are the same person
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeSun Nov 23, 2008 2:53 am

:?

Seriously?
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Oh hello.   Oh hello. Icon_minitimeSun Nov 23, 2008 5:06 am

enviro wrote:
just to fill you it
emy is mattabesta
emy and mattabesta and WATERMELON and hoxhaist are the same person
no, matt is not watermellon, he is hoxhaist and emy.
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