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Riddler
Hero of Socialist Labor
Posts: 488
Join date: 2008-01-31
Age: 21
 |  Subject: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:57 pm | |
| http://www.geocities.com/klote_org/ _________________  |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:42 pm | |
| | Riddler wrote: | | http://www.geocities.com/klote_org/ |
Um, lol?
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic
Posts: 5413
Join date: 2007-12-06
Age: 23
Location: Mexico/Russia/Worl
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:12 pm | |
| That ought to be a joke... the starting quote is quite a hint to that. |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:16 pm | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | That ought to be a joke... the starting quote is quite a hint to that. |
There's a bunch of matrix quotes. And a lot of people take that movie real serious, like applying it to real life situations...
But read the introduction. The chronology is way fucked up.
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic
Posts: 5413
Join date: 2007-12-06
Age: 23
Location: Mexico/Russia/Worl
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:18 pm | |
| | Black_Cross wrote: |
There's a bunch of matrix quotes. And a lot of people take that movie real serious, like applying it to real life situations...
But read the introduction. The chronology is way fucked up. |
The sole idea of anarcho-stalinism is... well... ridiculous. Bakunin would probably digress though so long as the dictator was invisible. |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:20 pm | |
| | Zealot_Kommunizma wrote: | | Bakunin would probably digress though so long as the dictator was invisible. |
For real, it doesn't matter that there's a ruling party, so long as the people don't think there's a ruling party. Eureka!
And that site doesn't have one link or page on technocracy...
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic
Posts: 5413
Join date: 2007-12-06
Age: 23
Location: Mexico/Russia/Worl
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:23 pm | |
| | Black_Cross wrote: |
For real, it doesn't matter that there's a ruling party, so long as the people don't think there's a ruling party. Eureka! |
Sounds pretty much like a not particularily unfamiliar situation...
| Black_Cross wrote: |
And that site doesn't have one link or page on technocracy... |
Too bad. I'd probably link it in my little writtings about Culture of Labour. |
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Liche
Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts: 4608
Join date: 2008-01-29
Age: 18
Location: USA-Virginia
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:46 pm | |
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WeiWuWei
World Republic Party Member
Posts: 624
Join date: 2008-04-14
Age: 35
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:57 pm | |
| Kropotkin + Stalin = Many lulz. |
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Stos
New Party Member
Posts: 545
Join date: 2008-09-14
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:38 am | |
| | WeiWuWei wrote: | | Kropotkin + Stalin = Many lulz. |
Leninism-Stalinism-Cowism-Hoxhaism-Trotkinkapism? |
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Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic
Posts: 5413
Join date: 2007-12-06
Age: 23
Location: Mexico/Russia/Worl
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:52 pm | |
| | Stos wrote: | | WeiWuWei wrote: | | Kropotkin + Stalin = Many lulz. |
Leninism-Stalinism-Cowism-Hoxhaism-Trotkinkapism? |
That, or the contradiction of the negative affirmation of the existant nonexistance. |
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Riddler
Hero of Socialist Labor
Posts: 488
Join date: 2008-01-31
Age: 21
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:30 pm | |
| What's so funny in it? In by opinion, anarcho-stalinism is an ideology that proposes that a totally free society (anarchy) can be achieved by the evolution of an authoritarian society. _________________ |
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WeiWuWei
World Republic Party Member
Posts: 624
Join date: 2008-04-14
Age: 35
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:35 pm | |
| | Riddler wrote: | | What's so funny in it? In by opinion, anarcho-stalinism is an ideology that proposes that a totally free society (anarchy) can be achieved by the evolution of an authoritarian society. |
wat |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:44 pm | |
| | Riddler wrote: | | What's so funny in it? In by opinion, anarcho-stalinism is an ideology that proposes that a totally free society (anarchy) can be achieved by the evolution of an authoritarian society. |
Which is why i laughed. That and, of course, the obvious contradiction this poses.
And how is this ideology any different from just Stalinism. Stalinists still seek to establish communism, no? And communism is basically synonymous with anarchism. So you must have believed, even before this, that a free society could be established through authoritarian means. What makes you think this is at all viable?
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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comrade110397
New Party Member
Posts: 568
Join date: 2008-11-10
Age: 26
Location: IDK
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:20 am | |
| Anarchy and stalinism dont mix. Plus did you see Korpotkin's beard? LOL!! |
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Tyrlop
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1860
Join date: 2008-06-01
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:12 am | |
| | comrade110397 wrote: | | Anarchy and stalinism dont mix. Plus did you see Korpotkin's beard? LOL!! |
dont make fun of greatest men in human history. ±_± |
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Riddler
Hero of Socialist Labor
Posts: 488
Join date: 2008-01-31
Age: 21
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:54 am | |
| | Black_Cross wrote: |
Which is why i laughed. That and, of course, the obvious contradiction this poses.
And how is this ideology any different from just Stalinism. Stalinists still seek to establish communism, no? And communism is basically synonymous with anarchism. So you must have believed, even before this, that a free society could be established through authoritarian means. What makes you think this is at all viable? |
Actually, stalinists differ very much between each other. Stalin in the 20-ies indeed wanted to build a stateless communiusm, like Lenin. However, with the situation being critical in the 30-ies, he decided that only a totalitarian rule could be optimalc for the instant. Thus, much of the people, who call themselves stalinists, are actually totalitarians, and much of the people, who oppose to stalinism think of it as a totalitarian ideology.
Another difference: anarcho-stalinists share much of the things with the classical anarchism, like the individuality, religion, nationality and economical aspects, which you won't find in the classic stalinism._________________ |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:58 pm | |
| | Riddler wrote: | | Actually, stalinists differ very much between each other. Stalin in the 20-ies indeed wanted to build a stateless communiusm, like Lenin. |
So then what made 20's Stalin so great?
| Quote: | | Another difference: anarcho-stalinists share much of the things with the classical anarchism, like the individuality, religion, nationality and economical aspects, which you won't find in the classic stalinism. |
Well, individuality is seriously undermined in a totalitarian state.
How can they share the economic aspects of anarchism if the state is in total control? If the people are directly in control of the industries, it will naturally follow that they are in control of the way society is run at large.
So what actually makes this Stalinist, and how does that not inherently rule out the aspects of anarchy that i pointed to?
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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Lernt denken!
Pioneer
Posts: 41
Join date: 2009-01-19
Location: Germany
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:32 am | |
| in my opinion stalin never targeted a stateless society.
you can find great ideas about getting rid of the state in lenins writings.
the state must bei questioned and consequently overtaken which must result in die off of this state.
lecture: the state and revolution, lenin
for example in english here:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm
btw: http://www.marxists.org/ is a great source for literature, in a big number of languages, try it! |
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Black_Cross
Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts: 1702
Join date: 2008-04-04
Age: 24
Location: Sisyphean Hell
| | Subject: Re: Anarcho-stalinist site Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:06 pm | |
| Just to let you know Lernt, my diet consists of meat, vegetables, and the flesh of elitist ideologues. Conclude what you'd like. | Lernt denken! wrote: | in my opinion stalin never targeted a stateless society.
you can find great ideas about getting rid of the state in lenins writings.
the state must bei questioned and consequently overtaken which must result in die off of this state. |
Lenin used rhetoric, but none of his actions seemed to be geared towards decentralization, and, on the contrary, many of his actions strengthened the state, making it that much more difficult to establish communism.
| Quote: | | lecture: the state and revolution, lenin |
Reading The State and Revolution from the anarchist perspective was quite illustrating. What makes you think Lenin is at all correct in his assertions about the state and its role during the revolution? Was there some historical trend that i missed?
As far as i can tell, Lenin was hardly more revolutionary (at least in practice) than Stalin, and neither made any significant steps towards egality and freedom.
_________________
"A market economy must comprise all elements of industry including labor, land and money [...] But labor and land are no other than the human beings themselves of which every society consists and the natural surroundings in which it exists. To include them in the market mechanism means to subordinate the substance of society itself."
--Karl Polanyi--
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