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 Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split

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Kenzu
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PostSubject: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:44 am

You know what happens when you read in wikipedia? One article leads you to the next and soon you end up reading about things probably unrelated to the first article.

I started reading about Vietnam and how it's partition came about. It led me to Vietnam War, their use of Ho Chi Minh trail, which went over Khmer Rouge territorry in Cambodia, Pol Pot, why he has been supported by Chinese and later by the US, Why he attacked Vietnam, why



I have been studying Maoism, Sino-Soviet split.

Do you know, why Sino-Soviet split happened?

It wasnt because of "revisionism", nor because of "state capitalism" of USSR, it was because Mao perceived Khrushchev to be too soft on USA, especially during Cuban Missile crisis, when the Soviets pulled their nuclear missiles out of Cuba, after USA promised not to attack Cuba and to pull nuclear missiles out of Turkey.

Mao also didn't like that USSR was supporting India with weaponry, when China was waging war with India in 1962.

There is also the possibility that China felt encircled by Soviet allies, when Mongolia and Vietnam were pro-soviet, and in case of war with USSR, China wouldn't have any allies to rely on. Mao felt that USA is less dangerous, also because USSR was much closer to China.



"Planning and market forces are not the essential difference between socialism and capitalism. A planned economy is not the definition of socialism, because there is planning under capitalism; the market economy happens under socialism, too. Planning and market forces are both ways of controlling economic activity."
-Deng Xiaoping

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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:04 am

Kenzu wrote:
You know what happens when you read in wikipedia? One article leads you to the next and soon you end up reading about things probably unrelated to the first article.


So true, I end up like that alot.

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PostSubject: Re: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:18 am

Kenzu wrote:


It wasnt because of "revisionism", nor because of "state capitalism" of USSR, it was because Mao perceived Khrushchev to be too soft on USA, especially during Cuban Missile crisis, when the Soviets pulled their nuclear missiles out of Cuba, after USA promised not to attack Cuba and to pull nuclear missiles out of Turkey.

I think Khrushyov was too soft too! What a sissy... Although some sy Shay McVara wanted those nuclear missiles to be launched to USA and USA government declared that if those missiles hit USA it would be considered an agression from USSR thus leading to Nuclear war.

Kenzu wrote:

Mao also didn't like that USSR was supporting India with weaponry, when China was waging war with India in 1962.
Well, China had been supporting Pakistan.... Besides India is awesome Very Happy They should be friends with China!


Kenzu wrote:

There is also the possibility that China felt encircled by Soviet allies, when Mongolia and Vietnam were pro-soviet, and in case of war with USSR, China wouldn't have any allies to rely on. Mao felt that USA is less dangerous, also because USSR was much closer to China.

That Mao and his misunderstandings...


Kenzu wrote:

"Planning and market forces are not the essential difference between socialism and capitalism. A planned economy is not the definition of socialism, because there is planning under capitalism; the market economy happens under socialism, too. Planning and market forces are both ways of controlling economic activity."
-Deng Xiaoping

What a pile of bullshit.

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:10 pm

also kenzu I think china has massive territorial claims on russia, like trans amur area and mongolia.
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Kenzu
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PostSubject: Re: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:50 pm

mattabesta wrote:
also kenzu I think china has massive territorial claims on russia, like trans amur area and mongolia.

That's not true. The only claims they had were 2 tiny islands, but Putin gave it to them, so now there are no more territorial claims.

I think Russia, China and India should have a strong alliance!

I oppose all kinds of separatism!
If Mao wouldn't have supported the armies which fought against soviet backed revolutionary armies in Africa, most African countries and Latin American countries would have become socialist and thus USA and their allies would fall in economic depression, since they wouldn't be able to exploit them anymore and socialism would have prevailed in the 20th century already!

Because of Mao's separatist tendencies, we will have to wait for world socialism for another 100-300 years!

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Lernt denken!
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PostSubject: Re: Maoism and Sino-Soviet Split   Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:22 am

first of all: dont believe wikipedia.
even if i write "Lernt denken!" is a 200feet tall cucumber - it must not be true at all Wink

alright, if you think about the problems between ussr and prc you must go more back in time.
the idioty of "etappentheorie" and "volksfront" (popular front?), i mean the declared target of stalinists not to target a socialist revolution before a bourgeois revolution did happen is the first problem.
so moscow told the chinese communists to work together with Chiang Kai-shek led to a nearly complete destruction of the chinese communist movement.
as in any other case, moscow did need to see other revolutions fail to establish its bureaucracy authority.
worker in ussr then did think: ok if we bring down the bureaucracy we will be in capitalist regime or fascist regime which is not better than this.
same game in germany, spain, china, and many more countries.

a very good description of this process can be found in "The Revolution Betrayed" of Trotsky, Chapter 8:
http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm

and further, for china:
http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1940/07/china.htm
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