Centrism (Come hither Jesus)

We were talkin about this in the chat, and i wanted to see if Jesus could make sense of the ideology that is Centrism.

Jesus, if you would, please explain.

(Oh, and if it turns out that Jesus is not centrist, someone can just trash this thread)

Centrism actually allows you to do and say everything. Wich is good if the leader is not Jesus, or Liche.

Hutin wrote:

Centrism actually allows you to do and say everything.

Not at all.

Yes you can say everythign that's called free speech.
Allow everything?
Uhh.. no there are rules.

Like ? Plus there is no rule you can't break.

Hutin wrote:

Like ?

I think just the normal basic once, don't steal, murder, rape etc.
And all that shit.

Hutin wrote:

Plus there is no rule you can't break

Yea, but in all our countries there are rules people can't break and some of them are doing well, but like any country you got some assholes ruining that. Its not when you got centreism everythign will be like a utopia.

the Swedish Pirate Party is a centrist party.

Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it's something in between. Highly instable state, I think.

[quote=\"Riddler\"]Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it\'s something in between. Highly instable state, I think.[/quote]

How can you have something as in between two completely opposite things?

How can you have mild emptiness?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Riddler wrote:

Cenrism is neither capitalism or socialism, it's something in between. Highly instable state, I think.

How can you have something as in between two completely opposite things?

How can you have mild emptiness?

Well, a centist is someone who is a socialist, but accepts some elements of capitalism (or the opposite). And denies the radical things. Basically, it's the social-democrate.

Riddler wrote:

Well, a centist is someone who is a socialist, but accepts some elements of capitalism (or the opposite). And denies the radical things. Basically, it's the social-democrate.

In a capitalist framework, left, center and right are just the tendencies of how socially focused is the capitalist economy. The closer to left the more socially focused it is the closer to right the more individual-profit oriented economy is.

However left capitalism (social capitalism, welfare capitalism) is not communism (or socialism if you\'re not familiarized with the semantics of this word from a non-Leninist perspective). Socialism is commonly mistuderstood, mainly in USA, as \"welfare\" and in general it is misunderstood as welfare or social capitalism. Both are false notions.

Socialism cannot be mixed with capitalism; the existance of one opposes the other. Hence, capitalism can't have socialist elements nor socialism can have capitalist elements.

Socialism implies the complete control of the economy directly by the workers to suffice needs determined by themselves in ways determined by themselves as well. No wages, no exploitation, no economic alienation. Capitalism implies individuals or groups of them controlling the entire economy by having groups of workers producing goods that will be sold to them for profit these goods having a higher value than their wages. The owner of the means of production, the exploiter, will profit from the suprplus value provided by each worker.

Irreconciable systems.

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

Riddler wrote:

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

I think that's pretty much social-democrat, not sure though.

Riddler wrote:

What about the political system in Norway or Finland? Isn't it a mix of socialism and capitalism?

For me to respond to those specific cases would require more information, but i think i can make clear the problem here. There will always be elements of communism or socialism (if you want to call it that) because human beings have to employ mutual aid and support in order to live like we do. So a State can introduce welfare and claim it's socialist, but the two systems simply cannot mix, given the fact that socialism implies a society bereft of private property and the State.

centrism is somethng new, its like a black hole, everybody slowly gets suck into it, even the farest left and right.

Centrism is liberalism

Give just enough to the people so they live ok
Give the rest to banks, Multinational corporations, friends in power, their pockets somehow

No, Center means that you basically don't make a decision based on your party's line (Like right, would always take rightish decisions) but take the one most adapted to the situation. Basically means that you don't have a fixed opinion, always changing, adapting, evolving for the best. Of course extremes like Fachism and Communism are excluded.

Jesus wrote:

No, Center means that you basically don't make a decision based on your party's line (Like right, would always take rightish decisions) but take the one most adapted to the situation. Basically means that you don't have a fixed opinion, always changing, adapting, evolving for the best. Of course extremes like Fachism and Communism are excluded.

So in other words it means you don't have a political agenda, that is, according to you.

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

Jesus wrote:

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

I guess you're talking about communism since that's your example of "extreme left" (without the least base of course).

In communism workers take all the decisions and change them at will, so what's the point of your proposal?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Could say that, major advantage of this system would be that no bad decisions are taken by stubborn people trying to stick to theyr ''plan''

I guess you're talking about communism since that's your example of "extreme left" (without the least base of course).

In communism workers take all the decisions and change them at will, so what's the point of your proposal?

Yes but they wont turn theyr economy into capitalism to increase the value of theyr economy (for whatever reason at that moment),. Because they will want to stick to communist values, i love how you can't find out anything on your own.

Jesus wrote:

Yes but they wont turn theyr economy into capitalism to increase the value of theyr economy (for whatever reason at that moment),. Because they will want to stick to communist values, i love how you can't find out anything on your own.

Do you realize that what you said didn't make sense at all?

"Communist values" Jeez... was that funny...

Economy is controlled by the workers in communism, so economy necesarily serves the purposes the workers deem it to serve. It's not about "value of economy" (whatever you meant with that) or "values"....

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Yes but they wont turn theyr economy into capitalism to increase the value of theyr economy (for whatever reason at that moment),. Because they will want to stick to communist values, i love how you can't find out anything on your own.

Do you realize that what you said didn't make sense at all?

"Communist values" Jeez... was that funny...

Economy is controlled by the workers in communism, so economy necesarily serves the purposes the workers deem it to serve. It's not about "value of economy" (whatever you meant with that) or "values"....

Wtf, you don't even answer dammit, i said they won't modify theyr economy into to much ''Rightish'' Values, if the context demands it, because theyr totally to the left.

Jesus wrote:

Wtf, you don't even answer dammit, i said they won't modify theyr economy into to much ''Rightish'' Values, if the context demands it, because theyr totally to the left.

What's a "rightish value"? How could a context demand workers to stop controlling economy and give this to a handful of guys?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jesus wrote:

Wtf, you don't even answer dammit, i said they won't modify theyr economy into to much ''Rightish'' Values, if the context demands it, because theyr totally to the left.

What's a "rightish value"? How could a context demand workers to stop controlling economy and give this to a handful of guys?

Because international commerce is impossible due to the bond created by a communist controlled Country?

Jesus wrote:

Because international commerce is impossible due to the bond created by a communist controlled Country?

Point number 1
"Because" is a reply to "why?"... Where did I write "why?" in the post you're replying to?

Point number 2
You didn't reply to my question "What's a "rightish value"?". Will you reply to it?

Point number 3
I asked "How could the context demand workers to stop controlling the economy and give this power to a handful of guys?" Would you mind to explain?

Point number 4
And now adressing your assertion "International commerce is impossible due to the bond created by a communist controlled country"...

What is this supposed to mean? You're asserting that a communist controlled country (I'll assume you mean "communist country") creates a "bond" (this word means "link", "connection", "union" so I don't know what you're refering to) and that this bond somehow prevents international commerce...

I guess you mean "Capitalist nations cannot commerce with communist nations given the lack of compatibility of economies". It's just a guess... Is that what you meant?

Then, if you brought this to table was to imply that this lack of commercial interaction between communist countries and capitalist countries somehow may force the workers within the communist country to "adopt rightish values" which is translated to "go back to right wing" or simply put to adopt capitalism.

If that's your assertion. Then, you're wrong.

First of all, you didn't specify circumstances. If you tell me that a communist Seychelles can't strive by its own and will be forced to follow the condition of capitalist communities, of course it can't it nearly has no resources. However, if we talk about, for example, a communist Russia or a Communist USA, a Communist China or even a Communist Brazil, or even more a union of Communist nations for example a Communist Latin American Union. Then, there's an important economic condition known as "Autharchy". This condition allows an isolated community to be economically independant due to the resources it has at disposal and the economic output this allows.

If a communist community reaches such a condition, there's no way it's going back to capitalism.