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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: General understanding of communism   Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:23 am

Greetings to all members and guests who read these lines:

I would like to know how everyone of you conceive communism? What do you think "communism" stands for? What do you know about communism? Are you against? In favour? Indifferent? And why?

I invite people from all political spectres to give their opinion on what they understand as "communism", define their position towards it and to fundament that position Smile
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ivan55599
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:24 pm

This is very delicate thing, because so many people see that coomunism is bad thing Crying or Very sad Sad Mad
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:26 am

depends on what kind
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:30 am

Quote :
This is very delicate thing, because so many people see that coomunism is bad thing

This is because of those non-communists claiming to be communists.
Of course it is a delicate topic but what I want here comrade is that YOU tell me what you understand by communism Smile

Quote :
depends on what kind

There are not different kinds of communism, what did you mean?
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:18 pm

stalinism, leninism, anarcho-communism
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:59 pm

Quote :
stalinism, leninism, anarcho-communism

They're stalinism, leninism, anarcho-communism. Not communism.

So, what do you understand by communism?
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:35 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Quote :
stalinism, leninism, anarcho-communism

They're stalinism, leninism, anarcho-communism. Not communism.

So, what do you understand by communism?
a theory that all are equal and should be governed that way in a nut shell.
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:33 am

Comradeclock wrote:
a theory that all are equal and should be governed that way in a nut shell.

In a very simplistic way, yes, however, which are the implications of that equalty and how to achieve it? What does communism search for? Is it for all the proletariat to achieve a burgeoise state or all the burgeoise to achieve a proletarian state? Or none of them?

Which are the living standards to which communism should aim? What would people have right of in communism and why?

These are fundamental questions for the buildup of communism.
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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:24 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Comradeclock wrote:
a theory that all are equal and should be governed that way in a nut shell.

In a very simplistic way, yes, however, which are the implications of that equalty and how to achieve it? What does communism search for? Is it for all the proletariat to achieve a burgeoise state or all the burgeoise to achieve a proletarian state? Or none of them?

Which are the living standards to which communism should aim? What would people have right of in communism and why?

These are fundamental questions for the buildup of communism.
would you mind explaining the finer details to me comrade?
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:26 am

Comradeclock wrote:
would you mind explaining the finer details to me comrade?

Well defining communism is something hard. Some define it merely from the purely marxist perspective in which it is just the most highly developed state of capitalism. However on this issue I would say that Marx said very clearly that his theories had to be constantly revised. One of the points that I consider crucial to be revised is the concpetion that communism ultimately evolves from capitalism.

This conception leads to thoughts such as the possibility of letting capitalism peacefully evolve into communism. Taking into accounts the values of a capitalist society this is highly improbable and in the unlikely case it could happen it wouldn't be a healthy communism because of all the capitalist background, for example, the corruption of cultures and nations through globalization (which these days can be called americanization). This is just an example.

Because of such a conception many people that claim to be communists say that they don't care that the actual world remains with this economical system since it will ultimately evolve into communism. They can be either na´ve or simply indiferent or not real communists after all. Either way it leads to apathy from some sort of left minded sectors.

Another consequence of this conceptions is that it leads to "moderated communists" or "moderate leftists" which while agreeing with communism think it should be implemeted very gradually.

The effect of this is a detriment in the force of our movement.

Other misconception is that communism is the implementation of some sort of "Robin Hood" government which will force the wealthy to distribute equally their wealth among population and thus create a more egalitarian society. This is not communism since it still relies on capitalism.

Capitalism is not only free enterprise. Capitalism is based on the use of money and "capital" in order to make society work.

A misconception of socialism or communism would be that a country in which all means of production are owned by the state and that state foments social development with production but still using a market and consumer economy is communist. It's just a socialist tending state capitalism.

For example? Why was USSR a capitalist nation and not communist and not even socialist? Because of a simple thing: It relied upon money for its economy to work. All capital was state owned and was invested in the people, yes, however, it forced economy to depend on consumerism, to depend on consumption, on trade. Those are capitalist factors. And that is an essential reason of why USSR collapsed: it had a contradictory system.

As a conclusion to all this point: you cannot build communism with capitalist foundations. You cannot keep the same incentives as in capitalism and you cannot keep the same economic model.

Communism should rely on tacit economics. On the basis of economics. Economics are the transformation of natural resources into goods to satisfy human needs. Or the provision of services to aid satisfy or satisfy these needs. That's economics and that's what communism should stick to.

The reason to work is because you live in a community in which your work satisfies the needs of others just as the work of others satisfy your needs. You should either like your work or at least the fact that you can get the benefits of others' works because of your contribution to society. Taking job as a responsability and as part of your life rather than the simple struggle to survive.

That's one of the principles of communism.

But well. I really want to listen to other conceptions of communism before widely debating them.

In other words, I invite all readers to post what they conceive as communism and then we'll compare these conceptions so that we can get to a consensum Smile

Thanks Smile
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Coommunisim bad   Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:49 am

communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work. With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd. I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan.








bottom line: communisim=BAD
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:49 am

mattabesta wrote:
communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work. With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd. I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan.








bottom line: communisim=BAD

1. You should organize your ideas better so that others can understand you clearly. "communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work." What I understand from that is that you mean that communism fails to provide everyone with equal power.

2."With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd". Communism has a got a definition and an objective and therefore guidelines. Guidelines are part of the policies of a system so political power is required to enforce those guidelines. Since communism has a very objective definition and goals its impossible for politics to exceed the framework of communism without resistance from those who have agreed to follow it (communism).

3. "I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan." - What does this have to do with communism? Nothing really. And not only have you got no evidence or source for this claim but there are sufficient proofs to discredit what you've claimed. And once again, that has nothing to do with communism.

Bottom line: 1. You think that what USSR had was communism so you don't know what communism is. 2. You don't know how Soviet system worked and claim things without knowledge of that issue. 3. You can hardly criticize, at least objectively, something of which charachteristics you ignore.
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:27 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work. With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd. I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan.








bottom line: communisim=BAD

1. You should organize your ideas better so that others can understand you clearly. "communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work." What I understand from that is that you mean that communism fails to provide everyone with equal power.

2."With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd". Communism has a got a definition and an objective and therefore guidelines. Guidelines are part of the policies of a system so political power is required to enforce those guidelines. Since communism has a very objective definition and goals its impossible for politics to exceed the framework of communism without resistance from those who have agreed to follow it (communism).

3. "I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan." - What does this have to do with communism? Nothing really. And not only have you got no evidence or source for this claim but there are sufficient proofs to discredit what you've claimed. And once again, that has nothing to do with communism.

Bottom line: 1. You think that what USSR had was communism so you don't know what communism is. 2. You don't know how Soviet system worked and claim things without knowledge of that issue. 3. You can hardly criticize, at least objectively, something of which charachteristics you ignore.
But as you said,"money power disappears" but that money is then put to better health care systems, education and to the military.My parents provide a window to the USSR all they never said that clearly,i was starting to think that,but there is always the chance that I am wrong.But remember that i could've have been mislead because my parents never actually said that,and all reply's are welcome.
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:31 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work. With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd. I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan.








bottom line: communisim=BAD

1. You should organize your ideas better so that others can understand you clearly. "communism is sopposed to make all people equal and make evribody have th same power dosen't work." What I understand from that is that you mean that communism fails to provide everyone with equal power.

2."With communisim money power desipears but political power is increasd". Communism has a got a definition and an objective and therefore guidelines. Guidelines are part of the policies of a system so political power is required to enforce those guidelines. Since communism has a very objective definition and goals its impossible for politics to exceed the framework of communism without resistance from those who have agreed to follow it (communism).

3. "I'm sure someone working close to stalin had better acsess to education or helth sistem than somebody living in tjakistan." - What does this have to do with communism? Nothing really. And not only have you got no evidence or source for this claim but there are sufficient proofs to discredit what you've claimed. And once again, that has nothing to do with communism.

Bottom line: 1. You think that what USSR had was communism so you don't know what communism is. 2. You don't know how Soviet system worked and claim things without knowledge of that issue. 3. You can hardly criticize, at least objectively, something of which charachteristics you ignore.
But as you said,"money power disappears" but that money is then put to better health care systems, education and to the military.My parents provide a window to the USSR all they never said that clearly,i was starting to think that,but there is always the chance that I am wrong.But remember that i could've have been mislead because my parents never actually said that,and all reply's are welcome.
and i think i know what he mettabesta meant with someone working close to stalin;someone who was close to stlain(aq fellow governmnet worker might receive better thsn the rest.
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:38 am

Also....someone might have noticed that the USSR was socialist, not communist ,hence the name USSR or Union of Soviet Socialist Republics although i do not see how socilism differs from communism. scratch
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:30 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
and i think i know what he mettabesta meant with someone working close to stalin;someone who was close to stlain(aq fellow governmnet worker might receive better thsn the rest.

Yes, he meant that but what I'm asking him is what does that have to do with communism and where has he got evidence for that claim. Either way, it's even off-topic to communism.
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:56 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
and i think i know what he mettabesta meant with someone working close to stalin;someone who was close to stlain(aq fellow governmnet worker might receive better thsn the rest.

Yes, he meant that but what I'm asking him is what does that have to do with communism and where has he got evidence for that claim. Either way, it's even off-topic to communism.
he might be saying that communism was corrupt.....
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Patetine
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:41 pm

Communism rules!
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:37 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
and i think i know what he mettabesta meant with someone working close to stalin;someone who was close to stlain(aq fellow governmnet worker might receive better thsn the rest.

Yes, he meant that but what I'm asking him is what does that have to do with communism and where has he got evidence for that claim. Either way, it's even off-topic to communism.
he might be saying that communism was corrupt.....

Stalinism is not communism, so, allucions to Stalin are not allutions to socialism or communism and are off-topic here. Basically what he's impying is that he understands "communism" as state capitalism, the system that prevailed in the USSR.
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:11 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
and i think i know what he mettabesta meant with someone working close to stalin;someone who was close to stlain(aq fellow governmnet worker might receive better thsn the rest.

Yes, he meant that but what I'm asking him is what does that have to do with communism and where has he got evidence for that claim. Either way, it's even off-topic to communism.
he might be saying that communism was corrupt.....

Stalinism is not communism, so, allucions to Stalin are not allutions to socialism or communism and are off-topic here. Basically what he's impying is that he understands "communism" as state capitalism, the system that prevailed in the USSR.
i missed typed when i wrote communism......
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:48 am

Then what did you mean Alex?
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:15 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Then what did you mean Alex?
im quite not sure ;i am thinking 1 thing and then suddenly another;I don't know what to say. I would probobaly say that it was "stalinism"and i think it worked in most of the period when the USSR was still alive.Everyone was a happy,at least I was.If people are happy. i think the leader has fufilled his objective.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:16 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Then what did you mean Alex?
im quite not sure ;i am thinking 1 thing and then suddenly another;I don't know what to say. I would probobaly say that it was "stalinism"and i think it worked in most of the period when the USSR was still alive.Everyone was a happy,at least I was.If people are happy. i think the leader has fufilled his objective.

Stalinism was, per se, abolished with Khrushev since 1956. However, in essence USSR always ran on Capitalism of State which became even more moderate since 1985.
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comiescums
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:42 pm

ivan55599 wrote:
This is very delicate thing, because so many people see that coomunism is bad thing Crying or Very sad Sad Mad

Ivan i respect that people Smile
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: General understanding of communism   Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:52 pm

comiescums wrote:
ivan55599 wrote:
This is very delicate thing, because so many people see that coomunism is bad thing Crying or Very sad Sad Mad

Ivan i respect that people Smile

The problem with most people that see communism as bad is that they don't know what communism is. Most of them confuse it with the State Capitalisms that have been stablished in the COMECON and Warsaw Pact countries which became very unstable even implosive economies..
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