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cary jebus
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PostSubject: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:16 pm

turning into a trot, I now don't think to negatively of lenin.... so im no longer a council commie.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:12 pm

cary jebus wrote:
turning into a trot, I now don't think to negatively of lenin.... so im no longer a council commie.
so are you lika a socalist now?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:35 am

No he's a Trotskyist I think. I woudlt consider my self a Trotskyist or left-wing Marxist-Leninist.
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cary jebus
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:34 am

oligarch wrote:
No he's a Trotskyist I think. I woudlt consider my self a Trotskyist or left-wing Marxist-Leninist.
lol what i think i am now. Razz trotskyism is a form of communism.
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:55 am

cary jebus wrote:
oligarch wrote:
No he's a Trotskyist I think. I woudlt consider my self a Trotskyist or left-wing Marxist-Leninist.
lol what i think i am now. Razz trotskyism is a form of communism.
Glad to see your not a Stalinist.
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cary jebus
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:58 am

Renegade_Kautsky wrote:
cary jebus wrote:
oligarch wrote:
No he's a Trotskyist I think. I woudlt consider my self a Trotskyist or left-wing Marxist-Leninist.
lol what i think i am now. Razz trotskyism is a form of communism.
Glad to see your not a Stalinist.
I was NEVER a stalinist! I just used to be anti-lenin after a talk with a trot, I lost all my anti-lenin ideas and saw myself as a trot.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:32 am

cary jebus wrote:
Renegade_Kautsky wrote:
cary jebus wrote:
oligarch wrote:
No he's a Trotskyist I think. I woudlt consider my self a Trotskyist or left-wing Marxist-Leninist.
lol what i think i am now. Razz trotskyism is a form of communism.
Glad to see your not a Stalinist.
I was NEVER a stalinist! I just used to be anti-lenin after a talk with a trot, I lost all my anti-lenin ideas and saw myself as a trot.

Well its good to know that you're now a real communist and not a fake Marxist like the old socialist party.

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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:56 am

I wish we righties had cool names like that.. I'm not a nazi, and I support Mussolini only to a certain extent, I guess I am just an Authoritarian..but that dousnt sound cool
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:20 pm

Diogritor wrote:
I wish we righties had cool names like that.. I'm not a nazi, and I support Mussolini only to a certain extent, I guess I am just an Authoritarian..but that dousnt sound cool
yeah.
communists are the only ones who are named after theyer idelogy.
ther are non "capitalists" since it's range is too big
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:09 pm

These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:14 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

It's diffrent ways of fucking up the econamy
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:08 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:41 am

oligarch wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
ALL communist are pretending to be Communist. amirite?
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cary jebus
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:06 pm

Diogritor wrote:
oligarch wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
ALL communist are pretending to be Communist. amirite?
no, your not.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:30 pm

cary jebus wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
oligarch wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
ALL communist are pretending to be Communist. amirite?
no, your not.

he isn't a communist he is a FACIST
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:05 am

Diogritor wrote:
oligarch wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
ALL communist are pretending to be Communist. amirite?

How can you pretend to be something you are.
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:23 am

Zealot. Sickem! Tell him the universal truth about Communism..you know the one where it hasn't existed? That one.
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:17 am

Diogritor wrote:
oligarch wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
oligarch wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
These fucking tags "Trotskiyist", "Stalinist", "Maoist", "Leninist" is what is dividing us.

That's why I have posted a thread on the concept of communism, because I want to know what all those who claim to be communists understand as communism.

We pursue the same fucking objective damnit...

True but the problem is that Stalinists are not actual communists and hurt the cause when they pretend to communists.
ALL communist are pretending to be Communist. amirite?

How can you pretend to be something you are.
Zealot. Sickem! Tell him the universal truth about Communism..you know the one where it hasn't existed? That one.

The fact that true communism does has never actually been attempted does not mean that communists are not communists.

Unless you are referring to "communist states" and not the communist movement in which case it is true that Stalinist and Maoist states falsely claim to be communist but the few states with real Marxist-Leninist governments are branded as "communist states" by Imperialist propaganda and do not actually describe themselves as such.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:33 pm

mattabesta wrote:

It's diffrent ways of fucking up the econamy

Really? I have to ask, are you sure what economy stands for? Because I have argued with guys that have master degrees on Economics from US universities (or at least they claim so) and they don't have a clue. Are you sure you know what economy is my friend? And moreover, if you know what economy is, can you, without fear to be wrong, asure you know the exact implications of Communism, a system never established before by the way, in economy? Do you realize Capitalist economy differs both in goals and means from Communist economy? If you do, mr. Matthías Már, please expose, and not only in 5 words, your thesis. Please explain how can communism fuck up the economy. I'll really appreciate it.

Diogritor wrote:
Zealot. Sickem! Tell him the universal truth about Communism..you know the one where it hasn't existed? That one.

Well, Oligarch is completely right. While there have never been communist states, nor greatly trascendental attempts at building communism, it doesn't mean a communist isn't a communist. A communist is a communist due to his ideas, objectives and principles. Wether a communist can practice communism or not it depends greatly on the circumstances that communist is found within and his/her capabilities to practice communism.
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Kenzu
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:32 pm

Once communism is achieved in a country, the country's GDP will fall to 0.

That's because the price of all goods and services will fall to zero. There will be millions of transactions, but all of them will be a good/service for the amount of 0 money, that's why the total amount of all transactions will never rise above 0.

No matter if you go to see a doctor, if you study at a university, or take a trip around the world. The price will be always 0 in a communist society.

GDP is a bad measure of wealth. GDP of USA is higher than the GDP of EU, but the living standard in EU is higher than in USA, because Europeans dont have to spend that much money on climatisation, crime related costs, health care, education and other service provided by the respective EU governments...
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:37 am

Kenzu wrote:
Once communism is achieved in a country, the country's GDP will fall to 0.

That's because the price of all goods and services will fall to zero. There will be millions of transactions, but all of them will be a good/service for the amount of 0 money, that's why the total amount of all transactions will never rise above 0.

No matter if you go to see a doctor, if you study at a university, or take a trip around the world. The price will be always 0 in a communist society.

Exactly, because a communist economy is not dependant on money. It's a planned economy focused towards the satisfaction of needs based on prodcution and distribution.

Kenzu wrote:

GDP is a bad measure of wealth. GDP of USA is higher than the GDP of EU, but the living standard in EU is higher than in USA, because Europeans dont have to spend that much money on climatisation, crime related costs, health care, education and other service provided by the respective EU governments...

Completely right. Wealth can't be measured by GDP but by: 1. resources 2. Workforce 3. Technical Knowledge 4. People's will to progress
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:11 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:

It's diffrent ways of fucking up the econamy

Really? I have to ask, are you sure what economy stands for? Because I have argued with guys that have master degrees on Economics from US universities (or at least they claim so) and they don't have a clue. Are you sure you know what economy is my friend? And moreover, if you know what economy is, can you, without fear to be wrong, asure you know the exact implications of Communism, a system never established before by the way, in economy? Do you realize Capitalist economy differs both in goals and means from Communist economy? If you do, mr. Matthías Már, please expose, and not only in 5 words, your thesis. Please explain how can communism fuck up the economy. I'll really appreciate it.

Diogritor wrote:
Zealot. Sickem! Tell him the universal truth about Communism..you know the one where it hasn't existed? That one.

Well, Oligarch is completely right. While there have never been communist states, nor greatly trascendental attempts at building communism, it doesn't mean a communist isn't a communist. A communist is a communist due to his ideas, objectives and principles. Wether a communist can practice communism or not it depends greatly on the circumstances that communist is found within and his/her capabilities to practice communism.

communism dose not work becuse the inisitive to be creative dissapears.
democracy wanishes.
all are eqal and noone will have a life of riches and pleasure thus noone has anything to gain from working hard othere than a clap on the back.

p.s workers are gone they don't exist in westren cuntrtyes anymore robot and cumputers have replaced them.
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 pm

mattabesta wrote:


communism dose not work becuse the inisitive to be creative dissapears.
democracy wanishes.

*initiative, vanishes.

Communism has never existed so you don't have the slightest evidence for these claims. So you have to rely on your theories, let's see:

mattabesta wrote:

all are eqal and noone will have a life of riches and pleasure thus noone has anything to gain from working hard othere than a clap on the back.

Communism is not a system designed to fulfill the caprices of people with a complex of inferiority to overcome. In Socialism/Communism, this is considered a serious psychological problem to be professionaly assesed. That is, people in communism work for the next reasons:

1. It's the way through which they make their rights applicable to them.
2. Because of appreciation of labour as something that enriches human being.
3. Because they want their society to develop, because they want to contribute.

People in communism don't work to be over others.

People in communism don't compete against each other but in games and sports. They compete against challenges, against problems to be solved.

Creativity is not product of competition between people but of intelligence, observation and need to solve a certain problem.

Quality is product of scientific investigation and performace followup, not of competition against individuals or organizations. The incentive? the need to solve a problem in more and more efficient ways.


mattabesta wrote:

p.s workers are gone they don't exist in westren cuntrtyes anymore robot and cumputers have replaced them.

Oh really? Then I guess sanitation workers, masons, miners, clerks, transport and factory workers, just to mention a few examples, in the US and Europe were just a product of my imagination....

Now, is that a possible future? That's one of the objectives of capitalism! To be able to prescind of workers and just sell their shit to others to get richer.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:52 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:


communism dose not work becuse the inisitive to be creative dissapears.
democracy wanishes.

*initiative, vanishes.

Communism has never existed so you don't have the slightest evidence for these claims. So you have to rely on your theories, let's see:

mattabesta wrote:

all are eqal and noone will have a life of riches and pleasure thus noone has anything to gain from working hard othere than a clap on the back.

Communism is not a system designed to fulfill the caprices of people with a complex of inferiority to overcome. In Socialism/Communism, this is considered a serious psychological problem to be professionaly assesed. That is, people in communism work for the next reasons:

1. It's the way through which they make their rights applicable to them.
2. Because of appreciation of labour as something that enriches human being.
3. Because they want their society to develop, because they want to contribute.

People in communism don't work to be over others.

People in communism don't compete against each other but in games and sports. They compete against challenges, against problems to be solved.

Creativity is not product of competition between people but of intelligence, observation and need to solve a certain problem.

Quality is product of scientific investigation and performace followup, not of competition against individuals or organizations. The incentive? the need to solve a problem in more and more efficient ways.


mattabesta wrote:

p.s workers are gone they don't exist in westren cuntrtyes anymore robot and cumputers have replaced them.

Oh really? Then I guess sanitation workers, masons, miners, clerks, transport and factory workers, just to mention a few examples, in the US and Europe were just a product of my imagination....

Now, is that a possible future? That's one of the objectives of capitalism! To be able to prescind of workers and just sell their shit to others to get richer.

for fucks sake dude if pepole don't get anything they won't do anything.
only a small part of the population beleves that.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:40 am

mattabesta wrote:

for fucks sake dude if pepole don't get anything they won't do anything.
only a small part of the population beleves that.

And how did you get to the conclusion that people get nothing? It's amazing that you don't even bother to read what others post... really mattabesta, before considering to reply, be sure you have thoroughly read the post you're addressing to.
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