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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:36 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:

for fucks sake dude if pepole don't get anything they won't do anything.
only a small part of the population beleves that.

And how did you get to the conclusion that people get nothing? It's amazing that you don't even bother to read what others post... really mattabesta, before considering to reply, be sure you have thoroughly read the post you're addressing to.

rich pepole will lose poor pepole will win but never get what they wanted.

in a liberal society evryone would have an eqal oppritunity to compete and become rich.

now compitition makes evryone work harder right so the econamy will be more prosperus and the state can help the pepole to get better and have better lives wich is the goal of our lifes right, to live a long and fufilling life.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:28 am

mattabesta wrote:

rich pepole will lose .

Rich lazy and indiferent people will lose. People who want to work will win.


mattabesta wrote:

in a liberal society evryone would have an eqal oppritunity to compete and become rich.

That is fake: People born within rich families, and moreoever influential ones, have much, much greater chances than anyone else to suceed, become rich or free. And that is a proven fact.

mattabesta wrote:

now compitition makes evryone work harder right so the econamy will be more prosperus

People shouldn't work for presure, society should be conflictive but cooperative.

In communism people get their rights applicable to them by working, the harder they work the more they can rest. Rest, something essential, becomes one of the rewards aside from acqueiring rights.

mattabesta wrote:

and the state can help the pepole to get better and have better lives wich is the goal of our lifes right, to live a long and fufilling life.

This is linked to the concept of wellbeing. I personally don't want to live a long life filled with luxuries. All I want is to work freely, contributing to society, to live with a woman that loves me and to be able to acquire more knowledge, perhaps travel, and keep healthy. I don't want to live more than 60 years unless I can live even more than that with the same physical quality as I do right now.

But this is another topic.


mattabesta wrote:
poor pepole will win but never get what they wanted.

You say there are no poor people in Niceland right matti? then how the hell do you know what poor people want? I work in a construction company, I talk to masons, painters, carpenters, sanitation workers, security officers, drivers, engineers, people from Middle to Low classes. If they didn't have the ridiculous model of the burgeois rich life they wouldn't aspire to it. Many say they just aspire to it out of mere curiousity.

You know why most people want money and economical wealth in this world Mr. Matthías Már? Because within a capitalist framework having money implies security and freedom. Most workers break their back working for their whole lives and are never able to get that. EVER.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:57 am

1. you get rich by braking your back

2.if evryone has eqal education then evrybody is eqal.

I know you will say I am wrong and that pepole in rich families can help theyer kids to learn or be influential. this is true but theyer parents got rich by working hard or maybe not them maybe theyer grandparents worked hard the fact is that they did work hard and those who don't work hard and contribute to sosicety will die or fall off.

3. I didn't mean pepole should be undere pressure I meant that if someone dose something good or someone invents something he won´t just get a clap on the back but a reward of metirila pleasur.

4. ok you want to live to 60????????????? the medium age is 84 for gods sake are you going to drink poisn or something. as you said it is personal what your life goal is but then you can't foece pepole to live like you want peronally I would join a resistace group if you would become PM.

5. it's called Iceland.
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:58 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
[
Most workers break their back working for their whole lives and are never able to get that. EVER.

Aye. It's sad but true. I've met a couple of students who were poor but smart as hell, they tried to aspire and become what they wanted. But you know what happened to them?

They all dropped out and now, I haven't seen them since. Sad

Ellen Meiksins Wood's analyaze of "The Communist Manifesto, 150 Years Later" was right. And it always shall be right.

Quote :
"Now more than ever it should be obvious, as it was to Marx and Engels, that a society driven by the imperatives of captial accumulation has to give way to a more humane and democratic social order."

_________________
"I'll live on...in the hearts of the people I know... It's my own choice now."
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:08 am

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
[
Most workers break their back working for their whole lives and are never able to get that. EVER.

Aye. It's sad but true. I've met a couple of students who were poor but smart as hell, they tried to aspire and become what they wanted. But you know what happened to them?

They all dropped out and now, I haven't seen them since. Sad

Ellen Meiksins Wood's analyaze of "The Communist Manifesto, 150 Years Later" was right. And it always shall be right.

Quote :
"Now more than ever it should be obvious, as it was to Marx and Engels, that a society driven by the imperatives of captial accumulation has to give way to a more humane and democratic social order."

I know it's sad some of my poorer frinds have "broken" familyes and started drinking at the age of 13!.
But my best friend david comes from a poor family and did have qite low grades tho not failing 2years ago.
now he has something like nines and tens all over.
I can give you more exampels but don´t have space. pepole can change and they have the power to do so If the will is there.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:15 am

mattabesta wrote:
1. you get rich by braking your back

Not true in most cases.

mattabesta wrote:
2.if evryone has eqal education then evrybody is eqal.

False again. When you got to survive you got few time to study. And once you have studied, if you're poor you're in total disadvantage compared to someone that has the same eagerness, intelligence and knowledge as you but, differently from you, has money.

mattabesta wrote:

I know you will say I am wrong and that pepole in rich families can help theyer kids to learn or be influential. this is true but theyer parents got rich by working hard or maybe not them maybe theyer grandparents worked hard the fact is that they did work hard and those who don't work hard and contribute to sosicety will die or fall off.

Or maybe their grand grandfather just were the servants of some wealthy man who in exchange of favours gave them something. The thing is that if you're born within a wealthy family it is much easier for you succeed than it is for someone with lesser resources.

There are millions of people not contributing to society, just selling crap, and they live like kings.

mattabesta wrote:

3. I didn't mean pepole should be undere pressure I meant that if someone dose something good or someone invents something he won´t just get a clap on the back but a reward of metirila pleasur.

I was adressing the "competition" part.

I have told you hundreads of times what people get in communism from working hard and/or inventing something. Would you mind to read it? And once you do, would you mind to quote it just so that we make sure you read it?

mattabesta wrote:

4. ok you want to live to 60????????????? the medium age is 84 for gods sake are you going to drink poisn or something.

It's not the medium age for everybody. In Russia the median maximum age for males is 67. That seems good enough to me.

mattabesta wrote:

as you said it is personal what your life goal is but then you can't foece pepole to live like you want peronally I would join a resistace group if you would become PM.

I didn't say I wuold force people to live my lifestyle. I was adressing to your statement that "we all want to live a long life".

Else, you seem, once again, not to read what I wrote in reply to your post. I said that I would like to live as long as possible if I could keep the same physical condition I have, something that isn't bad.

mattabesta wrote:

5. it's called Iceland.

I call it Niceland as part of your fantasy world which I call "Happy Planet", where there are no poor people and volcanoes spit honey with money..
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:08 am

now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:15 am

mattabesta wrote:
now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?

By getting their rights satisfied and by success at theiw work.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:03 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?

By getting their rights satisfied and by success at theiw work.

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:19 am

mattabesta wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?

By getting their rights satisfied and by success at theiw work.

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.

Before actual communism can be implemented there most be a period of intense social development society can advance beyond that frame of mind.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:35 am

oligarch wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?

By getting their rights satisfied and by success at theiw work.

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.

Before actual communism can be implemented there most be a period of intense social development society can advance beyond that frame of mind.
so you plan on brainwashing evrybody?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:02 am

mattabesta wrote:
oligarch wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
now how do pepole get rewarded in a communist society?

By getting their rights satisfied and by success at theiw work.

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.

Before actual communism can be implemented there most be a period of intense social development society can advance beyond that frame of mind.
so you plan on brainwashing evrybody?

No, just advancing society.
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:36 pm

why in every Communist((as americans see it)) society do people flee when it is being founded then?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:47 pm

Diogritor wrote:
why in every Communist((as americans see it)) society do people flee when it is being founded then?

Because they are enemies of the proletariat.
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:49 pm

so that is why they usually are at the ass end of Genocide?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:53 pm

Diogritor wrote:
so that is why they usually are at the ass end of Genocide?

It's not really genocide but enemies of the proletariat are sometimes executed for their crimes; not that I'm in favor of capital punishment.
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:57 pm

eh..its 3AM here now..im not getting any sleep >< /b/ is full of fail today too. gonna go watch infomercials((america fuck yea))
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Diogritor wrote:
eh..its 3AM here now..im not getting any sleep >< /b/ is full of fail today too. gonna go watch infomercials((america fuck yea))
\

"No RON! It's only 6 EASY payments of 59.99$!!!!!!!"
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:44 pm

mattabesta wrote:

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.

Nice way to tergiversate things, again.

Which clap on their back? Home? Education? Healthcare? Food? Infrastructure? That's much more than a clap on the back.

Diogritor wrote:
why in every Communist((as americans see it)) society do people flee when it is being founded then?

Because many of them search for more efficient or at least economically freer forms of capitalism.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:45 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:

but the majoraty of pepole won't try to do something unless they are rewarded with something eles than a clap on the back.

Nice way to tergiversate things, again.

Which clap on their back? Home? Education? Healthcare? Food? Infrastructure? That's much more than a clap on the back.

Diogritor wrote:
why in every Communist((as americans see it)) society do people flee when it is being founded then?

Because many of them search for more efficient or at least economically freer forms of capitalism.

considering that 90% of the population in westren cuntryes has those
(not the usa tho) there is nothing to really gain.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:53 am

mattabesta wrote:


considering that 90% of the population in westren cuntryes has those
(not the usa tho) there is nothing to really gain.

Sure... but that's not the only issue. People in communism don't have to struggle for survival.

Anyway we'll see how things go once the countries that allow so much wealth to these "western countries" as you call them, arise.

Globally speaking the G7 is the great economical empire with the 3rd world as servant and client. If the G7 is rich is greatly due to the fact the 3rd world nations allow it in their ignorance.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:35 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:


considering that 90% of the population in westren cuntryes has those
(not the usa tho) there is nothing to really gain.

Sure... but that's not the only issue. People in communism don't have to struggle for survival.

Anyway we'll see how things go once the countries that allow so much wealth to these "western countries" as you call them, arise.

Globally speaking the G7 is the great economical empire with the 3rd world as servant and client. If the G7 is rich is greatly due to the fact the 3rd world nations allow it in their ignorance.

1. the 3rd world is getting richer faster than the west.
2.if only 10% need communism or whant it at all then you have no grounds to force evryone to live a mediem life to make those 10% happy.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:50 am

Diogritor wrote:
eh..its 3AM here now..im not getting any sleep >< /b/ is full of fail today too. gonna go watch infomercials((america fuck yea))

RULES 1 & 2

Actually I don't care anymore, I'm a lu/r9k/er now.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:52 am

mattabesta wrote:

1. the 3rd world is getting richer faster than the west.
Hmmm... you mean again GDP growth? Not only it isn't true, it doesn't work that way. The G7 nearly controls world capitalist economy, they take cheap natural resources to sell them as more expensive products to 3rd world countries.

mattabesta wrote:

2.if only 10% need communism or whant it at all then you have no grounds to force evryone to live a mediem life to make those 10% happy.

Most of people that have home, food, electricity have it limited, logically, by their incomes. In most cases these are not sufficient.

As for the example. It is capitalism the lesser part of the world's population needs to be happy. No rich people without poor.
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: no longer a left commie   Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:46 am

oligarch wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
eh..its 3AM here now..im not getting any sleep >< /b/ is full of fail today too. gonna go watch infomercials((america fuck yea))

RULES 1 & 2

Actually I don't care anymore, I'm a lu/r9k/er now.
we are talking to people from middle of nowhere european countries.. I think I am fine :p
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