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revolution
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PostSubject: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:29 am

not sure where to put this, so i put it here. Anyways...

Does anyone have any sources (nonbiased ones if possible) where I could read up on how the Soviet, Chinese, Cuban, Vietnamese, etc. governments are/were run exactly so i can see just how they're/were flawed, because American history books are about as useful as The Cat in the Hat when it comes to accurate, nonpropagandated information on this kind of thing.

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Jesus
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:51 am

Idk, command from a Quebec library (In Canada) books over here and generally unbiased and there is no banned books over here, like we read catcher in the rye at school, which i believe is the 2nd most banned book in american schools, anyways yeah do that.

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revolution
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:53 am

I can't go to canada. Know any online sources or books I could get at the bookstore?

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Jesus
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:54 am

revolution wrote:
I can't go to canada. Know any online sources or books I could get at the bookstore?

Said order a book from there, not go there. And also yeah theyre should be some libraries that are reliable in States, we never know.

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jarvis
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:30 am

lol of course canada is capitalism so dont trust they to get you acurit info
if you wunt to find the truht, to bad, anything from the "comunist cuntries" is biased because they just maid cult of personality around they eader and discard opposing truths and the capitalist countries just lie

but really it doesnt matter, its in the past, hitory is a bad subject no wunder i had a c minues
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:46 am

revolution wrote:
I can't go to canada. Know any online sources or books I could get at the bookstore?

Unbiased sources on USSR and alike systems... well, any marxist will analyse them without bias so you should try wandering around marxist forums and such, they may have some useful bibliography around there.


Anyway, it's not rocket science how these systems work/ed.

They were/are Social State Capitalisms.

Social because the economy was mainly oriented into providing the population with welfare and social infrastructure at no cost (but at the expense of the economy).

State because the whole economy was run by the state.

Capitalism because it was a capitalist economy based on capital and wages.

In essence the state owned means of production and had workers working for it. Goods and services would be produced. Some would be for free like housing, education and healthcare and others would have to be bought and paid for like food, clothing, cars, etc. Economy ran on a national capital which was used to pay the workers and given the necesity import goods.

Workers would be paid by the state, then they'd buy stuff. This money would go back to the state and the state would reinvest it in the following activities.

1. Reinvestment into income-producing industries.
2. Welfare production, that is production of goods to be distributed and services to be provided for free. Note that they'd cost the state but tehy would bring no income.
3. Non profitable enterprises like industrial, urban and technological development.
4. Military expenditures. Development, production, manteinance and operation. All implying massive permanent costs and even material losses in operation.
5. Statesmen payroll.

What acn you conclude from the above? That most of the economy was focused on non-profitable activities. Thus, expenditures overweighted by far incomes leading to unstability and eventual economic collapse.

USSR's economy was flawed in that, while being capitalistic, it wasn't profit but welfare-development-defense oriented.

That was USSR's economic flaw to be capitalistic.

It could have been a social popular scientific dictatorship which established a scientific instead of capitalistic economy. It could have had councils of workers determining what the state should enforce and what should be produced and how. It could have been a need-satisfaction-oriented-scientifaclly directed economy. Becoming the closest any authoritarian system could get to communism. It could have had a more steady development and probably even evolved into communism. Basically the geniunely socialistic vanguardist's wetdream.


Instead it was a social capitalism, ie, a contradictiory economic and political system. If you're gonna rely on capitalism you better be profit oriented. If you're going to make your economy be focused on society's development you better put it in hands of the people and make it logical dropping the capitalism bulshit along the way. You can't both have your society develop while you exploit them.

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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:57 am

Water, please leave.

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revolution
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PostSubject: Re: I have a question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:25 pm

jarvis wrote:

but really it doesnt matter, its in the past, hitory is a bad subject no wunder i had a c minues

I guess u just suck at history.

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