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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:26 am

I believe that every man and woman responsible enough should be allowed to own and carry whatever type of weapon (not explosive) with no penalty. This includes automatic weapons. It would acually reduce crime. All the unresponsiable people (ie. criminals) will not have weapons so they will not be able to commit crimes against an armed public. Even if they have guns, the victim could fight back with his own gun. Seriously, would you rob a bank with 50 armed people inside?
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:31 am

LoL. I like how you sound like a typical american dumbass.

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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:33 am

Jesus wrote:
LoL. I like how you sound like a typical american dumbass.
In a governmentless utopia, who would be here to enforce a zero tolerance gun control?
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:35 am

comrade110397 wrote:
Jesus wrote:
LoL. I like how you sound like a typical american dumbass.
In a governmentless utopia, who would be here to enforce a zero tolerance gun control?
You would enforce each other. But who would say what enforcing would be? What would the penalty be? WHo would decide?
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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:46 am

And you thought you'd never see that post written by me....

Not all american ideas are bull shit. 60% are, but 30% are compeletly valid. Zero-tolerance gun control or any gun control makes only insures that the citizens cannot fight the government once it becomes a fashist(lol) state.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:31 am

comrade110397 wrote:
I believe that every man and woman responsible enough should be allowed to own and carry whatever type of weapon (not explosive) with no penalty. This includes automatic weapons. It would acually reduce crime. All the unresponsiable people (ie. criminals) will not have weapons so they will not be able to commit crimes against an armed public. Even if they have guns, the victim could fight back with his own gun. Seriously, would you rob a bank with 50 armed people inside?

And you say you're a Marxist...

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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:35 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
comrade110397 wrote:
I believe that every man and woman responsible enough should be allowed to own and carry whatever type of weapon (not explosive) with no penalty. This includes automatic weapons. It would acually reduce crime. All the unresponsiable people (ie. criminals) will not have weapons so they will not be able to commit crimes against an armed public. Even if they have guns, the victim could fight back with his own gun. Seriously, would you rob a bank with 50 armed people inside?

And you say you're a Marxist...
Marx never mentiond gun control
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:41 am

comrade110397 wrote:


Marx never mentiond gun control

And I didn't say he did.

As a Marxist you should understand that the criminals are not criminals for being irresponsible but because they've been forced into that by their context. A Marxist understands that the problem is not, to go with your example, bank robbery but 1) what triggers the robber's intention to rob the bank and 2) the reason for which in first place the bank exists.

Given this understanding guns are not only useless to solve any problem but could actually increase them being able to imply gunfights and thus injuries to individuals and death.

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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:10 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
comrade110397 wrote:


Marx never mentiond gun control

And I didn't say he did.

As a Marxist you should understand that the criminals are not criminals for being irresponsible but because they've been forced into that by their context. A Marxist understands that the problem is not, to go with your example, bank robbery but 1) what triggers the robber's intention to rob the bank and 2) the reason for which in first place the bank exists.

Given this understanding guns are not only useless to solve any problem but could actually increase them being able to imply gunfights and thus injuries to individuals and death.
No money=less crime. Less crime=sigifigantly less gunfights. Less gunfights=no reason to keep tight control on who can have gun. Gun=ones ability to protect ones self. Btw you never stated whether you were for or against gun control.
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:37 am

I support gun OWNERSHIP, btu not to that level. Put it simply, someone pisses you off, you have to go home, find your gun and bullets, find the guy, and shoot him. One is liekly to cool down in that time and think. However, if one is CARRYING a gun, boom. Many don't think when angry.Autoatic weapons have no point other than to kill human beings. And allowing them to ne sold freely like that won't keep them off the streets any better than it is currently.

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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:03 am

comrade110397 wrote:
No money=less crime. Less crime=sigifigantly less gunfights. Less gunfights=no reason to keep tight control on who can have gun. Gun=ones ability to protect ones self. Btw you never stated whether you were for or against gun control.

You were talking in a capitalist context, not a socialist one.

In socialism what the fuck do you need guns for?

I don't see the point for gun usage. I have nothing against possesion but, as TK says, carrying it? Nah.

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Hutin
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:04 am

If you don't like guns, go to Canada, bunch o' pussies.

Wait.

Oh SHI-
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:06 am

We have guns. Just not fully automatic death machines. What's the point? For the most part we don't have any desire to KILL other human beings. Even our average criminal doesn't want to. hell, you look at crime rates, and how America's going, we're better.

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Everything!
Her ambitions to dominate the universe are terrifying,
Evil beyond imagining.
I,
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Will stop her.
Even if I have to destroy the universe to do it!"
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Hutin
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:07 am

Canada rules, bro.

I mean, blows. Yeah, blows.

Ah fuc*.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:09 am

I like guns very much, in fact I love weaponry. But their objective in most cases is absurd.

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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:34 am

I enjoy their make, their design. The curves, wheight, all of that. Same with swords. But I hate their purpose.

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Her ambitions to dominate the universe are terrifying,
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I,
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Will stop her.
Even if I have to destroy the universe to do it!"
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:45 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
I enjoy their make, their design. The curves, wheight, all of that. Same with swords. But I hate their purpose.

Seconded. I'd say that pretty much as pieces of art and engineering, they're awesome.

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revolution
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:58 pm

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
We have guns. Just not fully automatic death machines. What's the point? For the most part we don't have any desire to KILL other human beings. Even our average criminal doesn't want to. hell, you look at crime rates, and how America's going, we're better.

I agree, damn yanquis, I might just move to Canada.

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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:28 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
I support gun OWNERSHIP, btu not to that level. Put it simply, someone pisses you off, you have to go home, find your gun and bullets, find the guy, and shoot him. One is liekly to cool down in that time and think. However, if one is CARRYING a gun, boom. Many don't think when angry.Autoatic weapons have no point other than to kill human beings. And allowing them to ne sold freely like that won't keep them off the streets any better than it is currently.
Johny wants to protect himself, he buys a gun. Hes happy with the gun. Some people threaten Johny on the street, and mug him. Johny decides to carry the gun around, incase that happens again (just to scare them, he wouldnt ever shoot any one). Two weeks later, Johny has taken the habit of carying his weapon conceiled everywhere he goes. Later, he walks in, a coworker is sleeping with his Fiance! OH NO! HE SHOT THE COWORKER AND FIANCE :S.
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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:30 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
comrade110397 wrote:
No money=less crime. Less crime=sigifigantly less gunfights. Less gunfights=no reason to keep tight control on who can have gun. Gun=ones ability to protect ones self. Btw you never stated whether you were for or against gun control.

You were talking in a capitalist context, not a socialist one.

In socialism what the fuck do you need guns for?

I don't see the point for gun usage. I have nothing against possesion but, as TK says, carrying it? Nah.


Quote :
In socialism what the fuck do you need guns for?
That was kinda my point although i didnt make it clear. Even though there is no use for guns, it dosn't mean you shouldnt be able to carry one. It just means it wont be used. Over time it will become just another article of clothing. You just cant have a concialed weapon. Wearing a gun in public is like a dog bearing its fangs, it only serves to intimidate others into not attacking you, thus reducing violence. It got this idea after i read that the murder rate back in the old west was lower than that of today because they carried their guns in public.

Eventhough you can carry an automatic weapon, you might not pefer it. Most auto weapons are heavy and clumsy. This might deterr people from carring one.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:35 am

That reminds me of an old cartoon, Earth achieved World Piece. As a result, all weapons were destroyed and put into a fire. But then (during the celebration) Aliens attacked, we had nothing to defend are selves with.


Also, Socialism is not peace, for peace, there must be peace at mind. YOU SLEPT WITH MY GIRL FRIEND!!! oh wait, were socialist, I forgive you.

(which is what the idea of Christianity is suppose to do: YOU SLEPT WITH MY GIRLFRIEND oh well, god forgives you.)
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:12 am

That was The Simpsons. And we still had boards with nails in them to fight off our evil alien overlords. They're plasma cannons are not match for our nails in planks of wood!

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"Jenaveve took everything from me.
My friends,
My family,
Everything!
Her ambitions to dominate the universe are terrifying,
Evil beyond imagining.
I,
Tyrong Kojy,
The one whose power even the creator fears,
Will stop her.
Even if I have to destroy the universe to do it!"
Tyrong Kojy/Jenaveve by Nicholas Rivest


Last edited by Tyrong Kojy on Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:26 am

comrade110397 wrote:

That was kinda my point although i didnt make it clear. Even though there is no use for guns, it dosn't mean you shouldnt be able to carry one. It just means it wont be used. Over time it will become just another article of clothing. You just cant have a concialed weapon. Wearing a gun in public is like a dog bearing its fangs, it only serves to intimidate others into not attacking you, thus reducing violence. It got this idea after i read that the murder rate back in the old west was lower than that of today because they carried their guns in public.

Then your entire thought is based on a false premise. Most crimes are commited by people in order to procure themselves they can't legally acquire given their conditions not by people wishing to commit a crime. People don't normally walk around streets wanting to kill every passer by.

Actually, your proposal would worsen murder risks. If a girl cheated on some guy, like me for example, within the following months you'd get at least 10 murders. When my exgf cheated on me I literally wanted to kill every single guy in his city between 17 and 35 years of age. I was so deeply hurt by that situation that I even rejoiced at the idea of randomly going into a nightclub and killing as many people as possible and feeling the warmth of their blood on my skin and then suicide there or get killed whatever happened first or was more practical. As Tyrong pointed out, when people are under anger's influence they don't reason, emotions take control. If I'd had access to guns in those times I'd taken no less than 5 people with me to the grave.

And I'm telling you a relatively extreme case, there are even worse and there are those that would simply shoot at someone for anything, kill him/her and then regret the rest of their lives.

Here in mexico carrying guns is illegal unless you have a license, which is not particularily easy to acquire, yet, some people carry guns. There was this guy, a bus driver, who once almost crashed with some one. That someone got pissed enough to acelerate, reach the bus get on its way, stop it and then he hopped in the bus, took his gun out and shot the driver twice. Lucky guy he didn't die, but that was plain luck.

Imagine that now in a communist society where every single person, had society so determined, would be able to have a gun? In those moments of rage which will exist always regardless of economic system, you'd get outrageous shootings and murder rates. In such moments you're not thinking "This guy may also have a gun, this guy may kill me, this guy may beat me", no, you simply want to fuck that someone up.

Youth gatherings would most probably be synonimous to bloodbaths.

comrade110397 wrote:

Eventhough you can carry an automatic weapon, you might not pefer it. Most auto weapons are heavy and clumsy. This might deterr people from carring one.

A heavy weight lifter may have some predilection for anti-tank weapons given his corporal mass while maybe I'd love to carry an Ak-74. Come on people, time for deadly tantrums!

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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:34 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
That was The Pimpsons. And we still had boards with nails in them to fight off our evil alien overlords. They're plasma cannons are not match for our nails in planks of wood!
But, do you still see the point? Its allways safe to be prepared. Just because their is virtually no crime dosent mean you dont need a police force.
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comrade110397
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PostSubject: Re: Gun control.   Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:58 am

Zealot wrote:

Actually, your proposal would worsen murder risks. If a girl cheated on some guy, like me for example, within the following months you'd get at least 10 murders. When my exgf cheated on me I literally wanted to kill every single guy in his city between 17 and 35 years of age. I was so deeply hurt by that situation that I even rejoiced at the idea of randomly going into a nightclub and killing as many people as possible and feeling the warmth of their blood on my skin and then suicide there or get killed whatever happened first or was more practical. As Tyrong pointed out, when people are under anger's influence they don't reason, emotions take control. If I'd had access to guns in those times I'd taken no less than 5 people with me to the grave.
Unless you were stupid enough to point a gun at someone who also has a gun sourrounded by 10+ people with guns in the area who could very well shoot you this wouldnt be a probelm. Kinda creepy too.....

zealot wrote:

Here in mexico carrying guns is illegal unless you have a license, which is not particularily easy to acquire, yet, some people carry guns. There was this guy, a bus driver, who once almost crashed with some one. That someone got pissed enough to acelerate, reach the bus get on its way, stop it and then he hopped in the bus, took his gun out and shot the driver twice. Lucky guy he didn't die, but that was plain luck.
If the bus driver had a gun this might not have happened.

zealot wrote:


Imagine that now in a communist society where every single person, had society so determined, would be able to have a gun? In those moments of rage which will exist always regardless of economic system, you'd get outrageous shootings and murder rates. In such moments you're not thinking "This guy may also have a gun, this guy may kill me, this guy may beat me", no, you simply want to fuck that someone up.
I hate to sound cold but, anyone who goes on a rampage like that will do us all a huge favor by removing himself from the gene pool. Someone could always do it for him...
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