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 Liberalism- defined.

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Liberalism- defined.   Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:04 am

some of you have had a hard time understanding liberal ideolagy so here it is:

Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal. Liberalism has its roots in the Middle Ages and Age of Enlightenment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government. All liberals — as well as some adherents of other political ideologies — support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.

Within liberalism, there are two major currents of thought that often compete over the use of the term "liberal" and have been known to clash on many issues, as they differ on their understanding of what constitutes freedom. Classical liberals, believe that the provision of negative rights, that is freedom from coercion alone, constitutes freedom. As a result they see state intervention in the economy as a coercive power that restricts freedom when enforced coercively by law, emphasize laissez-faire economic policy, and oppose the welfare state. Social liberals argue that freedom from economic as well as physical coercion is necessary for real freedom. They generally favor such positive rights as the right to vote, the right to an education, the right to health care, and the right to a living wage. Some also favor laws against discrimination in housing and employment, laws against pollution of the environment, and the provision of welfare, including unemployment benefit and housing for the homeless, all supported by progressive taxation

underlined are my liberal idears.
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Renegade_Kautsky
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:32 am

Two things:

1. The views you underlined seem to be that of a "Social Democrat" rather than a "liberal"

2. For future reference, the word is "ideas" not "idears". Smile
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:50 am

Renegade_Kautsky wrote:
Two things:

1. The views you underlined seem to be that of a "Social Democrat" rather than a "liberal"

2. For future reference, the word is "ideas" not "idears". Smile

they are close but and some say socal liberals and socal dems are the same but realaty is diffrent. all liberals share the top section and that is what makes them liberal.
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cary jebus
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:03 pm

social liberalism dose not over-lap communism, you can be socally liberal and still be economicly communist.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:42 pm

cary jebus wrote:
social liberalism dose not over-lap communism, you can be socally liberal and still be economicly communist.

no you can't since liberalism uses a capitalist framework.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:40 am

mattabesta wrote:

no you can't since liberalism uses a capitalist framework.

What cary probably means is that Communism allows social freedoms.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:33 pm

Quote :
What cary probably means is that Communism allows social freedoms.
Yeah, that's what social liberalism means. Social democrats are almost the same as social liberals but they emphasize social freedom and economic equality a little more than liberals. Mattabesta is definitely a social democrat.
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:35 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
What cary probably means is that Communism allows social freedoms.
Yeah, that's what social liberalism means. Social democrats are almost the same as social liberals but they emphasize social freedom and economic equality a little more than liberals. Mattabesta is definitely a social democrat.

thank you I beleve the same as communist( kinda) that evrone has the freedom to be theyer best and that evryone should have an eqal oppritunity for life but forced eqalaty is bad and in the end leads to rebellion.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:47 pm

Communists do not believe in forced equality.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:55 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Communists do not believe in forced equality.

so you can own a better apartment and have a better life than the guy who lives next door???
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:48 pm

Yes, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:32 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Yes, of course.
cool so then what do I do to have a better apartment???
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Diogritor
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:08 pm

mattabesta wrote:
cary jebus wrote:
social liberalism dose not over-lap communism, you can be socally liberal and still be economicly communist.

no you can't since liberalism uses a capitalist framework.
So does Socialism..
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:16 pm

Diogritor wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
cary jebus wrote:
social liberalism dose not over-lap communism, you can be socally liberal and still be economicly communist.

no you can't since liberalism uses a capitalist framework.
So does Socialism..

what??
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:37 pm

Quote :
cool so then what do I do to have a better apartment???
Depends on whether you're talking about socialism or communism. In socialism you just work more. In communism you just take a better apartment.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:48 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
cool so then what do I do to have a better apartment???
Depends on whether you're talking about socialism or communism. In socialism you just work more. In communism you just take a better apartment.
but zelot says evryone gets the same.
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:00 am

In communism, Marx NEVER meant everybody to be literally the same. He just simply wanted equal rights for the working class, then have those rights applied to the people of the world. Whether rich or poor, everybody would be treated as kind humans.

Marx NEVER forced communism upon anybody. That was not his message. His message was to warn the entire world of the "dog-eat-dog" tendencies of free blown capitalism, where EVERYTHING would be sold for profit, and tried to pave the way for a more democratic society where everybody would be like a family to each other. That's it.

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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:44 am

mattabesta wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
cary jebus wrote:
social liberalism dose not over-lap communism, you can be socally liberal and still be economicly communist.

no you can't since liberalism uses a capitalist framework.
So does Socialism..

what??
Socialism just turns into State Capitalism
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:10 pm

Quote :
but zelot says evryone gets the same.
He probably meant there won't be huge wealth differences. In socialism, you get paid according to how much you work. In communism, you contribute according to ability and take according to your needs.
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PostSubject: Re: Liberalism- defined.   Fri May 30, 2008 12:01 am

Watermelon wrote:
Quote :
but zelot says evryone gets the same.
He probably meant there won't be huge wealth differences. In socialism, you get paid according to how much you work. In communism, you contribute according to ability and take according to your needs.

w8 that's what I ALREADY do.
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