World Republic

Uniting All People!
 
HomeHome  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Happy Victory Day!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Tue May 12, 2009 11:05 pm

RedSoviet wrote:


ussr was 15 countrys russia is 1

So? You said Russia was about to reach USSR economically which is far from true and in several ways even impossible. And what is certainly impossible is for Russia to have more potential than USSR.

RedSoviet wrote:

russia is the birthplace of ussr and it revolution and none of the other countrys

Russia, by the time USSR was born, was comprised by all the other countries as well.

RedSoviet wrote:
german broth lenin in russia but in russia the revolution happened, russia and no other country are and is the birthplace and the successor, its even worldwide actepted and signed, so POINT on this one

Russia=Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc.

And the acknowledgement by institutions of quetsionable validity taht base their assertions on nil arguements is irrelevant. The fact is that the succesor of the Russian Empire was USSR comprised by the 15 republics. Russia doesn't only fall short of potential to USSR, it was 63% of USSR (77% in territory and 50% in population) which means defacto it is not s auccesor but just its most prominent part.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 12:05 am

USSR (1989) GDP= 2,659 trillion (15 countrys)

RUSSIA in (1993) GDP= ~450 billion

RUSSIA (2008) GDP= 1,676 trillion (1 country)

that should say all

Quote :
Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc.

ther were all irrelevant to that time, it was all russia, history is already writen and rightly ther stands that russia is USSR's successor, so what you think is here irrelevant, with tha tpoint then your words will not change anything in world's history

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 1:12 am

RedSoviet wrote:
USSR (1989) GDP= 2,659 trillion (15 countrys)

RUSSIA in (1993) GDP= ~450 billion

RUSSIA (2008) GDP= 1,676 trillion (1 country)

that should say all

Did you read what I said? GDP means absolutely nothing. Economy is measured in economic output and Russia falls too short of that.

Also, if yo want to keep with abstract irrelevant economics, 2,659 "trillion" (I hate the fucking short scale, and as a Russian you shouldn't use it, we use the long scale - million, milliard, billion, billiard and so on), money was worth far more in 1989 than in 2008. Inflation.

But that is irrelevant. Economy is measured in industrial and agricultural output, not GDP. GDP is based on arbitrary commercial values whereas industrial physical output is an objective undeniable and factual measure.


RedSoviet wrote:


ther were all irrelevant to that time, it was all russia, history is already writen and rightly ther stands that russia is USSR's successor, so what you think is here irrelevant, with tha tpoint then your words will not change anything in world's history

I'm just demonstrating, once again, that you're wrong in your assertion that Russia is the succesor. It assumed the same roles as USSR because it inherited most of the territory and the positions in irrelevant international institutions. Yet, USSR was conformed by what used to be the Russian empire, which included the extremely importat territories and populations of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus and many others.

As you said, it was all Russia, it was all USSR but the Russian Federation is just the biggest chunk of that.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 9:33 am

GDP is the only thing, and the GDP per capita


your wrong it is it and it won't change, what you say is and will be not important

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 5:19 pm

RedSoviet wrote:
GDP is the only thing, and the GDP per capita

Now you're being plain irrational. That or you eat and dress money and your housing is made of money.

As I explained, GDP is nothing but arbitrary values with no scientific foundation. It does not represent at all the economic capability of a nation. At all. What does is the industrial and agricultural output for it demonstrates the real capability of a nation to produce any given ammount of any certain material and/or good which are what really suffice needs.

RedSoviet wrote:

your wrong it is it and it won't change, what you say is and will be not important

And this is nothing but a statement, not an argument. So it's invalid. You're just denying without any back up to your claim.

Russia is just 63% of USSR and actually does represent a yet smaller fraction of what used to be the Russian Empire. It falls too short to de facto be a succesor to USSR. Russia is just a chunk, not an equivalent.

Like official concepts and conventions? Russia today isn't considered a supowerpower whereas USSR was. The international projection of USSR is far larger than that of the Russian Federation and the potential, there's just no comparison.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 6:04 pm

its the statistic with that you can measure the development and stood of a country, ther is no HDI index for the sovietunion so we can't take it but even soo russias HDI index is very good to with 0.806 and its improving further + Gini index have improved very good to

Quote :
And this is nothing but a statement, not an argument. So it's invalid. You're just denying without any back up to your claim.

it is the natal and descendant country, and history have signed it like that, very rightfuly! so your thought way and words are irrelevant Rolling Eyes

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CoolKidX
Chairman of the Supreme Council


Posts : 4639
Join date : 2008-02-14
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 6:24 pm

RedSoviet wrote:
its the statistic with that you can measure the development and stood of a country, ther is no HDI index for the sovietunion so we can't take it but even soo russias HDI index is very good to with 0.806 and its improving further + Gini index have improved very good to

Its high, 0.806, yes, but very good? Uhhm.. no, when its over 0.900 it should be considered very good. But yea Russia is going the good way since its rising every year. Russia is 73th in the HDI ranking of the world, so it isnt something to be super proud of. But atleast its going the good way yay.

_________________
"Fuck gotta invade Ukraine" -- Vladimir Putin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 6:36 pm

its very good if you see how much ther rised the last 10 years

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CoolKidX
Chairman of the Supreme Council


Posts : 4639
Join date : 2008-02-14
Location : Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 6:51 pm

Maybe about a couple of years they can have over 0.900 HDI!
I think that will take 8-10 years. Maybe longer.

_________________
"Fuck gotta invade Ukraine" -- Vladimir Putin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Wed May 13, 2009 6:54 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Maybe about a couple of years they can have over 0.900 HDI!
I think that will take 8-10 years. Maybe longer.

its good solong its go up and never more down....

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 1:10 am

RedSoviet wrote:
its the statistic with that you can measure the development and stood of a country, ther is no HDI index for the sovietunion so we can't take it but even soo russias HDI index is very good to with 0.806 and its improving further + Gini index have improved very good to

And now you're simply disregarding entirely my arguement, presenting no counter argument and just making statements again.

GDP measures the worth in money of a country's production. It doesn't measure the industrial potential, it doesn't measure how many products have beeen produced or can be produced, in short it doesn't measure a country's capability to suffice its population's material needs. It just shows how worthy in money according to the certain policies of a time is that country's production.

This will change in accordance to how states and bourgeoisie around the world decide it. It's just a bunch of arbitrary values with no real economic meaning.


GDP per capita is yet more misleading. Why? Because from all that worth in money produced by the country (which already doesn't denote the real economic capability of that nation) it is not shared that way. It is also shared arbitrarily in accordance to the policies set by the state and the bourgeoisie of that nation. GDP per capita has absolutely no ecopnomic value except to further demonstrate that GDP is worthless to measure a country's economic capability: Y country could be producing more than enough to suffice the needs of its population or even have the greatest industrial outputs in the world but, if that is worth less money than the production of X nation for the kind of product they produce which actually could be not within the array of needs of Y's country's population, then, Y's GDP would be lower than that of the nations producing that product.

HDI. Come on are you being serious? This is a United Nations set value, an average of the next parameters:

Life Expectancy Index: The average maximum age reached by the people of a certain nation.

Education Index composed by:

2/3 Adult Literacy Index (Adult literacy rate/100) + 1/3 Gross Enrollment Index (CGER [Combined Gross Enrollment Ratio - ratio of people of schooling age from kindergarted to upper education enrolled divided by total ammount of people of schooling age]/100 )

And finally GDP Index:

[log(GDPpc)-log(100)]/[log(40,000)-log(100)] That is logarithm of GDP per capita minus logarithm of 100 divided by logarithm of 40,000 minus logarithm of 100.

So, HDI is (LEI+EI+GDPI)/3. Based on that, USSR's HDI can be obtained. But that is absolutely irrelevant.

How can HDI determine the level of development of a certain population if it takes just into account 1) the average ammount of maximum time persons can live when this is highly reliant on material and even genetic conditions the first of which are entirely reliant on the economic and political scheme? 2) The ammount of people that know how to read (without assesing linguistic proficience) and the ammount of people enrolled at schools (without assesing the educational procedures, informations avaliability and difusion and again, linguistic and overall communicative proficience) and besoides when this is arbitrarily given fractional values, limiting the relevance of one over another without substantition? And when development in this matter is as well entirely linked to material conditions while these are disregarded as well? 3) It includes GDPpc of which validity has been already proven nil as per the above arguement.

Based on all that... what's the relevance of HDI? What gives validity to such a baseless parameter of development? What gives UN the capability to determine whether a nation is more developed than other, specially when based, again, in totally scientifically baseless and even unilaterally assesed parameters?

And finally, the Gini index... it is used to demontrate the unequalty of "wealth" distribution within a population... how is that relevant when most of the people are subject to the policies of a minority? I don't know. But well, lets see.

We have here a Gini Index expert, Kenzu, if he comes by he'll sure be glad to explain you how, within Gini Index parameters Eastern Bloc countries had far lower Gini indexes than any western Nation and how the Russian Federation is still far from reaching the USSR in this matter. Why's this? "Wealth" was distributed far more evenly within a State Capitalist framework than within "free market" capitalist frameworks.

But now lets asses the relevance of this.

Again, wealth is an arbitrary value with no scientific or even physical basis. When the ammount of things produced by people that people can acquire is limited by a State, Bourgeoisie or both through market agreements, laws and wages they can arbitrarily accomodate values to serve their intersts, this means that it doesn't matter at all if there's or not a great disparity of income for this income and the proportion in which this income is worth is determined by those who control the economy. This does not demonstrate whether a population within a given territory produces enough or not to suffice its needs in both kind and amount, it just demonstrates that the ammount of income, as determined by the ruling entities, is not so dispar among the members of a population. It doe not demonstrate that production is distributed evenly, it just demonstrates that incomes are more or less even according to ruling entities' laws. Nothing else. I don't see how that is relevant at all.

Defacto, Russian Industrial output is incredibly limited in comparison to USSR's, Russian Industrial potential is as well incredibly limited.Resources at disposition of the Russian Federation are limited in comparison to USSR's, the material limitations product of a market and capital based economy further limit this. The inclusion of foreign exploitative entities limit the profit acquired by the Russian Federation and further limit its industrial capability by draining workforce, space and resources into the objectives of foreign exploiters, this, within a capitalist free market framework as well provide economic power of foreign exploitative entities over the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation is quite far from reaching the USSR and in many aspects is entirely unable to reach it.



RedSoviet wrote:


it is the natal and descendant country, and history have signed it like that, very rightfuly! so your thought way and words are irrelevant Rolling Eyes

Natal descendant country? Like a grandchild born from his grandpa or what?

The Russian Empire was the combination of all the territories of USSR and a few more. USSR was the combination of 15 republics, some very rich in population, territory, industrial capability and rfesources. The Russian Federation is just the biggest chunk of that Union. The Russian Federation as per average of territory and population is just 63% of USSR. This is a fact no history book, UN dignatary or US, Russian or French scholar can change. These are not my thoughts, this is a fact that can be researched by assesing data. Nothing else.

USSR's international projection was far greater than Russian Federation's, its economic output and potential were far larger than Russian Federation's, its military was far larger and up to greater and development than Russian Federation's, USSR's educational potential was far larger, USSR's cultural development as well. Even appealing to your beloved official scholars, as I said in my previous post, while USSR was a superpower (as per the previous parameters among other things) the Russian Federation is just considered a Great Power making USA the only remaining superpower and with China striding towards the title of superpower.


What makes Russian Federation officially the sucessor of USSR? The stockpile of nuclear, chemical, biological and conventional weapons, the military industry that USSR left to it that guaranteed its prevalence in the UN security council (official recognition); the great industrial, technological and cognoscitive development USSR left to the Russian Federation. Being 63% of USSR.

What makes the Russian Federation defacto not a succesor nor equivalent?
Far more limited international projection; far more limited economic output and potential; far more limited resources' reservoir; decaying cultural and educational integrities; decaying population; submission to foreign ruling classes; having lost status of superpower; more limited strategic versatility; less powerful and more slowly developing military; different international political projection; different political system; inmense social unstability in comparison to USSR; decay in patriotism and patriotic identity; "brain leak"; racism, rise in religious fanatism, nationalism; weaker yet more deceitful state; inclusion of national and international bourgeoisie; increased suceptibility to foreign markets; more limited development potential.

And this is not my opinion. All these are facts that can be assesed. If you want to think having Moscow, the Kremlin and UN recognition is enough to be a succesor, think so - you'll be further diverting attention from the fact that the Russian Federation is not even the shadow of USSR nor factually serves as its successor.

_________________


Last edited by Zealot_Kommunizma on Thu May 14, 2009 2:13 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 1:31 am

you wer all about downrate all things, and throwing slogan's prove somthing??? give facts!!! i posted facts, numbers that are proven?

a bit less blahblah and more concrete facts and numbers!

of course russia is still not on the level of USSR but its 1 country and not 15 and it will reach this level soon, its potential is so great so much, so much country and still so less that is used, already the agrarian output this year was a new record

and like i said it is its descendant, it is signed by the world and actepted and that rightfuly, your words will not change anything, in russia the revolution sarted and in russia the sovietunion was leaded, you talked about facts? wehre? its fact that in history and in the world russia is the start of ussr, the leading power of ussr and the end of ussr and nothing else... accept it... becouse it won't change

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 2:12 am

RedSoviet wrote:
you wer all about downrate all things, and throwing slogan's prove somthing??? give facts!!! i posted facts, numbers that are proven?


Did you even read what I wrote? Obviously you didn't for you'd know that I'm posting nothing but facts and engaging in a rebutal of the validity of your figures to asses what we're discussing here. All you're doing is making statements and dodging my arguements.

RedSoviet wrote:

a bit less blahblah and more concrete facts and numbers!

Mind reading what I wrote?

RedSoviet wrote:

of course russia is still not on the level of USSR but its 1 country and not 15 and it will reach this level soon, its potential is so great so much, so much country and still so less that is used, already the agrarian output this year was a new record

Ehmm... again, mind reading what I wrote? Russia's agricultural output is far lower than USSR's and the potential is of course lower, specially because USSR includes Ukraine, a massive agricultural producer. Russia is quite limited territorially in comparison to the USSR - the most fertile soils remained in Ukraine, massive ammounts of minerals, gas and oil remained in Kazakhstan, and other central Asian republics, Massive ammouts of coal remained in Belarus and Ukraine. Tens of millions of workers remained outside the Russian Federation and that hinders productive capabilities.

RedSoviet wrote:

and like i said it is its descendant, it is signed by the world and actepted and that rightfuly, your words will not change anything,

It's not my words, it's a compilation of demonstrable facts.

RedSoviet wrote:

in russia the revolution sarted and in russia the sovietunion was leaded, you talked about facts? wehre? its fact that in history and in the world russia is the start of ussr, the leading power of ussr and the end of ussr and nothing else... accept it... becouse it won't change

Russia meant before 1917 "Russian Empire", composed by a lot of territories an populations most of which later formed part of the USSR. The Russian Federation is nothing but a chunk of that, the biggest chunk, but notheless just a chunk. I already posted my counter arguements and all you're doing is repeating yourself in a magisterial dodge.

Disprove my arguements or concede.


And just to denote symbolically the military disadvantage of the Russian Federation in contrast to USSR and how propaganda had worked to make Soviet productive quality as inferior:

When USA was battling in the 1st Gulf War, they fought against Soviet T-72s. These T-72s hardly inflicted losses among the armoured forces of the coallition, yet, they got destroyed in the hundreads. This made USA claim an inmense technological and qualitative superiority over USSR... yet this is what they didn't know: those T-72s were the "monkey versions" (downgraded version) of the 1st model of the T-72 tank which, since its inclusion in 1971, had undergone extensive modifications and develoment, including, by 1989, 10 years of combat experience in Afghanistan of all modified versions until that time. Aside from this, USSR had included in 1976 the T-80, a development from then T-64 which accoridng to western specialists was the most advanced tank of its decade and, had it appeared in tank to tank combat would have been a disgusting surprise for NATO armed forces. The T-80 by 1989 had already suffered several modifications that included experience in Afghanistan. Else, by 1985, the USSR was already working in the development of a 5th generation tank taht would have entered service somewhere around 1995, catching off-guard the NATO again - an unmanned turreted tank with a far higher caliber gun and maximum speeds of 80km/h, active protection systems and a suprastandard level of survability. By 1991 all USA could assses about military Soviet technology in practice was some downgraded old T-72s captured from Arabic states like Iraq and Syria while USSR already had inmensely better tanks and was about to develop the most advanced tank in the world, a leap on armoured fighting vehicles. USSR had these T-72s and T-80s in the order of tens of thousands while USA didn't even have 6,000 M1s.

After USSR collapsed, all the Russian Federation could come up with was mixing some components of the T-80 with the T-72 create some new compnents and create a defacto modification of the T-72 called T-90 which so far is the most advanced tank fielded by the Russian Federation and doesn't surpass 450. A lot of T-72s, T-80s and T-64s remained within several soviet republics. But here comes something worse: The Russian Federation sold upgraded T-80s to South Korea and Ukraine sold hundreads of advanced T-80s to Pakistan, both military allies of USA. USA also got several advanced T-80s and T-72s from Ukraine to run tests and literally unveil all their capabilities. By the year 2000, USA had a whole new lot of military intelligence on the Russian Federation's arsenal even having tens of sample tanks. This while the Russian Federation doesn't have a single captured or bought M1A2.

The Russian Federation is now struggling to have that new generation tank fielded by 2010 and in decent numbers by 2015, nearly delaying this tanks' development 20 years.

This equation repeats with the airforce and navy in the form PAK-FA and Blue Water navy capabilities. By late 1980s USSR was developing stealth 5th generation fighters and bombers, the Russian Federation has held back the development of teh 5th generation bomber and is struggling to have the 5th Generation fighter have its maiden flight this year. USA, on teh other hand, counts already with a couple dozen stealth bombers and with around 200 5th generation fighters. USA has been able to get a bunch of Mig-29 and Sukhois from Ukraine, Poland and Iraq.

By the late 1980's USSR was half-way in completing what would be the most pwerful military vessel ever to cross the seas: The Ul'yanovsk CVGN or a Nuclear, anti-ship/submarine weapon carrying, aircraft carrier able to carry around 70-80 aicraft, finally providng the USSR a Blue Water, internationally projectable Naval Air Fleet. It was about to complete the Varyag, a Kuznetsov class "Heavy Aircraft-Carrying Cruiser" and already had the Tbilisi (renamed Admiral of the Fleet of the USSR Kuznetsov) the first ship of that class. By mid 1990's USSR could have had 3 battling capable Aircraft carriers putting the Soviet navy at the same level as USA's in inmensely increasing USSR's international projection.

Instead, after USSR's collapse, the Russian Federation had to struggle with Ukraine to keep most of the Black Sea Fleet and a base at Sevatopol (which is being leased until year 2017) and Ukraine sold the almost finished Varyag to China (China has acquired this Aircraft carrier and a former Australian aircraft carrier to develop domestic Aircraft carriers).
The Russian Federation's current flagship can literally be immitated or improved and even produced in several numbers by China, the same applies for the Sovremenniy class DDG (destroyer) of which China has 4 now and could produce domestic versions.

The Russian Federation decomissioned dozens of ships and submarines decreasing nearly teh size of the Navy to a fourth of what USSR had. The Russian federation has decomissioned 3 of 5 Kirov class BattleCruisers and is struggling to keep serviceable 1 of the 2 in operational status.

There's no point of comparison between the Soviet navy and the Russian Federation's navy.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 3:23 pm

russia is like i said and oyu don't get it 1 country and not 15, so of course its still in some points not that far like the 15's was but it rise and will pass ussr in all points in not even a decade, and thats fact

all other country that were in sovietunion were just not important satellite state that were lead by moscow, russia so at the collapse ther were just not important byproduct's

the military part is the most funny... who devolepd all main thing in ussr, russia all of them, nearly all scientist were russians, the parts of the other states were a drip in the ocean, its al lour products, and in the 90's ther were no mony so no further devolopment, now it is and the hsow is going on and why should russia go now into an arms race and spend so much money on it? ther are more important things to do and the budget is good enough

to "soviet" navy how was it in the 80's? hmmm? how was it? its now already better and recovering from the decay...

bisides to say navy is the most unimportant thign in the whole military, already the sovietunion had a doctrine that aircraft carrier's had a negative cost benefit and were floating targets.... so much to that...

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 3:31 pm

and again FACTS:

GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate
- Total $2,261 trillion
- Per capita $15,922
GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate
- Total $1,676 trillion
- Per capita $11,807

CIA estimates its even much higher

HDI 0.806 and thats even from 2005 now its already much higher
Gini 40.5 same hear, thats from 2005 and is now already much lower

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 10:27 pm

RedSoviet wrote:
russia is like i said and oyu don't get it 1 country and not 15, so of course its still in some points not that far like the 15's was but it rise and will pass ussr in all points in not even a decade, and thats fact

You didn't read what I said. I explained why this is impossible so you're just dodging and repeating yourself. Explain how am I wrong or concede, stop just repeating the same thing over and over.

RedSoviet wrote:

all other country that were in sovietunion were just not important satellite state that were lead by moscow, russia so at the collapse ther were just not important byproduct's

That's perhaps why Russia keeps leasing naval bases at Ukraine and 100% of Russian Space launches occur from Kazakhstan... This definitely shows that you have no understanding of the strategic relevance of those countries nor a proper notion of how economy works.

RedSoviet wrote:

the military part is the most funny... who devolepd all main thing in ussr, russia all of them,

That's probably why there were so many main shipyards in Ukraine (where all Soviet Aircraft Carriers, Slava Class Cruisers, were built), that's also perhaps why Kharkov-Morozov (Where the T-34, T-64 and T-80 were mostly developed) is in Ukraine as well, and why Antonov is now a Ukrainian company.

RedSoviet wrote:
nearly all scientist were russians,

Let's see how true this is...

Sergei Korolyov - Ukrainian (from the same city as my grandfather); Artem Mikoyan - Armenian; Evgeniy Abramyan - Georgian; Anatoliy Aleksandrov - Ukrainian; Zhores Aleferov - Belarussian; Abraham Alikhanov - Azeri; Victor Hambartsumian - Armenian; Elepter Andronikahsvili - Georgian; Gurgen Askaryan - Armenian; Gersh Budker - Ukrainian; Viktor Dilman - Ukrainian; Nikolay Dollezhal - Ukrainian; Fyodor Fyodorov - Belarussian; Boris Hessen - Ukrainian; Abramm Ioffe - Ukrainian; Isaak Khalatnikov - Ukrainian; Isaak Kikoin - Lithuanian; Aleksandr Kuzemskiy - Ukrainian; Lev Landau - Azeri; Leonid Mandelshtam - Belarussian; Vassiliy Nesterenko - Ukrainian; Aleksey Pogorelov - Ukrainian; Vladimir Veksler - Ukrainian; Sergey Vonsovskiy - Uzbek; Nikolay Yenikoplyan - Armenian; Yevgenniy Zavoiskiy - Ukrainian; Yakov Zeldovich - Belarussian; Abraham Zelmanov - Ukrainian.

Seems like a fair share of Soviet scientists were from Ukraine, Belarus and the Caucasus' countries.

Also, remember that "brain leak" I mentioned? Most scientists that defected to west after USSR collapsed were Russian.


RedSoviet wrote:

the parts of the other states were a drip in the ocean,

40% a drip in the ocean? I don't think so. Main shipyards a drip in the ocean? Strongly doubt it. Main spacial testing facilities a drip in teh ocean? No.

RedSoviet wrote:

its al lour products,

Read above. I don't think there's need to repeat myself, much less within the same post.

RedSoviet wrote:
and in the 90's ther were no mony so no further devolopment,
I didn't know Russian tanks and missiles were made of money...

RedSoviet wrote:

now it is and the hsow is going on and why should russia go now into an arms race and spend so much money on it? ther are more important things to do and the budget is good enough

We're comparing Russian Federation to USSR. USSR was a superpower and one of the reasons for that was its massive armed forces and the industry to support them, quite superior to nowadays Russian Federation's.

RedSoviet wrote:

to "soviet" navy how was it in the 80's? hmmm? how was it? its now already better and recovering from the decay...

What? the Russian Federation's navy and its development is a joke compared to USSR's, and I explained why. Adress those arguements instead of just saying "it's getting better".

RedSoviet wrote:

bisides to say navy is the most unimportant thign in the whole military,
This is absolutely ludicrous. Did you know that for USSR or today the Russian Federation having a strong enough navy is crucial to avoid having to deal with a two-front war in land? Do you know how invasions take place? Do you know how long-range bombardments work? Did you know navies can carry entire air fleets? Did you know that the navy, in many circumstances is the 1st deffensive frontline? Not to mention that the navy is the main force for international projection, part of what a superpoer ought to have.

RedSoviet wrote:

already the sovietunion had a doctrine that aircraft carrier's had a negative cost benefit and were floating targets.... so much to that...

No single weapon can be cost efficent. You know why? Because weapons always represent a material waste - they produce nothing, their manteinance and their operation implies just material destruction. So don't talk about cost-effectiveness when talking about weapons - it doesn't make sense.

Now... you're implying that the USSR had considered Aircraft Carriers as useless. Yeah, perhaps that's why they were rushing to build a supercarrier (Ulyanovsk), a "heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser" (Varyag) and kept operational the Gorshkov Class and Moskva Class carriers. I'm sorry but you're wrong in your assertion that that was USSR's consideration of Aircraft Carriers.

Now, about their objective military worth: Aircraft Carriers allow a Naval Air Fleet that inmensely enhances naval deffensive and offensive capabilities. Carriers don't go alone, they often go in company of cruisers and destroyers, that is, they're protected by these vessels. But not only that, Carriers have their own deffensive instruments and, in teh case of Soviet ones, offensive. The airwin carried by carriers provides with extra deffensive firepower, the aircraft being able to literally hunt incoming anti-ship missiles.

Aircraft Carriers extend indefinitely the operational range of planes the latter being able to operate at thousands of kilometers from the carrier and return. Aircraft carriers are an inmense logistic, tactical and strategic solution both in deffensive and offensive operations. And the USSR understood this quite well.


But this was not even the point. I actually didn't imagine I'd even have to explain you the importance of things like the navy or within navy itself, aircraft carriers. The point was that in comparison the Russian Federation is far weaker than USSR and militarily is in a considerable disadvantage in comparison to USSR.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Tyrlop
Chairman of the WR Committee


Posts : 1853
Join date : 2008-06-01

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Thu May 14, 2009 11:11 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

RedSoviet wrote:
and in the 90's ther were no mony so no further devolopment,
I didn't know Russian tanks and missiles were made of money...
i have to say something here, you said yourself before that it costed the soviet union millions and billions and trillions of dollars to make and maintain(conservate) and you are also pointing it out later in this post.

and about the scientist well there where more scientist then those examples you came with, and those examples you showed us didnt had one single russian scientist, so its hard for me to believe that you didnt remove all russian scientist and just pasted in some scientist from ussr that do not have russian origins hoverever i believe that you are right about the point you are trying to point out just that you are making it look like a lie. thats not good for the epos, and makes you look unbelievable or what its called. someone that you dont allways trust.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Fri May 15, 2009 1:23 am

im about facts, you try to argue, im not here to argue

i posted facts, and how important are does names of scientist? how many hundret thousend ussr haved? which 40% post link and number or go home

navy is in comparing to the other military branches the most unimportant, just realy important when you are leading a agrissive/offensive war, then the to what they to the most time, float and trying to look good

every time electronics got smaller, cheaper and more efficient the warships became more of a trap every time stealth tech got on another step, the ship was more obviously a bad idea smaller, cooler-running engines = another bad sign for the ships, every single change in technology in the past half a century has had STOP BUILDING WARSHIPS written all over it... and notmuch paid any attention...

warships a floating targets, they don't have a defence against targets that comes from above, like missles and ballistic missles and not much defence agaisnt normal anti-ship missles, even such new systems like anti-anti ship missles like RIM-116 rolling airframe missile provide just a defence against a anti-ship missel (normal one) like lets say the harpoon of about 80% thats not much if one anti-ship missles that cost about not even far 1% that a ship do, so great numbers can be fired so that the defence possebilities sink, + if the missle is hited then jsut some money on it is lost but if the hsip is hited billions are lost and peoples live to, mostly a great number of it, and defence of new double suppersonic missles liek the russian and indian bramos it don't have at all nobody haves... a death trap!

i love here the story about israely super warship "INS Eilat" what it was doing in the war??? doing what surface ships do best lookin’ good and being completely useless, adn then what happened? 2 egypten little missle boats fired some 4 SS-N-2 anti-ship missles on it, and that a realy old missle REALY old one so the eilat was hit and sunk REALY fast, ther was it, ther millions and millions going on to the ground... and the funny thing is the don't even noticed till they were hit that someone fired at them

the Israelis learned their lesson no more big money and live eating ships just lighter flaxeble missile crafts and even still the are traps, like in 2006 hezbollah fired on them a little the most little anti-ship missle that exist and they losed again a ship but this time just some 3 death no big money losses becouse the small designe

basically ships you could afford to lose.... and still to ther job if needed

ther was a USA neval fight wargame called "millennium challenge" were they simulateted a lowtech attack on ther modern super hightech flet by iran so the pickedup a retired USMC "paul van ripen" and he with nothing more then lowtech small speedboats with lowtech surface to surface missiles managed to sink 2/3 of the US navy force...

they supermodern missles and radars don't halped against super little civilian speedboats, were a middle anti-ship missle already waights the same waight as the little speedboat with mounted rockets on it

but the navy don't learned from that defeat and send a battle group latter i the persian gulf... and what do you think? how the iranians reacted? they send fucking speedboats to harass the frigates and destroyers in close range zooming in the US navy weak point and drinving around them, a deathtrap far away from home sweet home.. would be funny if this little bouds with somke mounted grad rockets on them and mini anti-ship missles would take out a large number of billions worth warships

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww55/RedGunBullets/w4_screen-shot-143.gif?t=1242339128

but the provoking goes on with cheney till a man with brains comes into new office "robert gates" and stoped that shit, when he called iran challenge and not a threat that pissed a lot off ther in ther republican places it like calling in a church jesus a good guy and not my savior ^^

if you have sense and realize that the way to deal with overloaded targets is to saturate their defenses with a swarm of low cost attackers... it worked already even, can someone remember the time when a al-qaida little fisherboat with a lot explosives drived in a sucide attack in to a standing anchored US frigate and it was so damaged that it haved to towed away back to usa

"and thats when you are a REAL lowtech enemy without much stuff"

with a swarm of some anti-ship missles that each cost maybe a half a million take out half a billion ship you realy owned them, so the negative cost benefit is just too much against airforce with modern anti-ships missles they are like already said a deathtrap! the only thing in the navy what i realy worth somthing, nooo even REALY big are submarines

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
alexCCCP-RUS-54321
World Republic Party Member


Posts : 728
Join date : 2007-12-22
Age : 107
Location : Canada/Russia/World

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Fri May 15, 2009 5:30 am

I just want to say something about the T-90 and the Abrahms. I have compared the two, and wrote a big thing about, and now I will quickly sum up teh info, most of which i don't remember so instead I will just compare the two tanks.
T-90s weight: 46.5 tonnes Abrahms weight:61.4 tonnes
T-90s length:9.53 m Abrahms length:9.76 m
T-90s width: 3.78 m Abrahms width: 3.66 m
Ok this is taking to long so I'll just copy and paste the rest: T-90:
Height 2.22 m Crew 3 Armor Classified Primary
armament 125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability Secondary
armament 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun Engine 12-cyl. diesel
1,000 hp (750 kW) Power/weight 22 hp/tonne Suspension torsion bar Operational
range 550 km, 650 km with external tanks Speed 65 km/h

Abrahms: Height 2.44 m (8.0 ft) Crew 4 (commander, gunner, loader, driver) Armor Chobham,
RHA Primary
armament 120 mm M256 Smoothbore Tank Gun,
40 rounds Secondary
armament 1Χ .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 BMG machine gun,
2Χ M240 7.62 mm machine guns (1 pintle, 1 coaxial) Engine AGT-1500 multi-fuel turbine engine, Honeywell LV100-5 turbine engine
1500 hp (1119 kW) Power/weight 24.5 hp/tonne Transmission Allison DDA X-1100 3B transmission Suspension torsion bar Operational
range 465.29 km (289 mi)
With NBC system: 449.19 km (279 mi) Speed Road: 67.72 km/h (42 mph)
Off-road: 48.3 km/h (30 mph)

And now, some will argue that the abrahms has beat the T-90 in combat. Well, actually, it hasn't. those were iraqi T-90s. Just like you can't expect untrained Soldiers to perfrom well in a an Abrahms, you can't expect untrained , foreign, soldiers to use a T-90 well. ANd the Russian tank training is suberb, i think. American is good too, but as you can see here, teh stats don't lie.

And now, for teh black eagle tank, whihc is expected to go in production in 2010. It will crush anything in its way. It is supposed to have a 152 mm gun. Its statistics are awesome, if you can find some verified ones. NOTICE VEREFIED.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Fri May 15, 2009 1:02 pm

RedSoviet, behold. I've been working 16 hours on my reply to you. Believe me, I'm going to smash every single point of yours with massive ammounts of facts and arguements. I guess my reputation precedes me so, I'm not bragging or lying, just couldn't finish it for today.

Previous to that:

1. You haven't adressed my points. You've been dodging. I'm going to repeat them again in hope that you'll at least adress them. Unless you do, whatever you say is moot for it has been disproven by the arguements I presented, and don't say they haven't because you haven't even adressed them and I have no proof that you even took your time to read them. Notice before repeating my arguements again in next post: I'm not saying you lie or that your facts are wrong - I'm saying that your facts are entirely irrelevant and explaining why. You'll have to defend the validity and relevance of your facts by disproving my explanation of why they're irrelevant. If you fail to do so, then, again, presenting them is moot.
2. I've gathered (and still I'm gathering) a list with hundreds of Soviet Non-Russian scientists among which, for yor big surprise, are several main weapons' and technology developers. I will demonstrate you how your claim that "nearly all scientistt were Russian" is far from true, specially in regards to military.
3. You better fucking read what I'm going to post. If you don't this time, I will simply not take you seriously anymore. I've been too patient with you ignoring 50-70% of the content of my posts. And be warned that if you keep dodging my arguements instead of at least trying to refute them, whoever that is interested in this discussion and that takes his/her time to read both parties' discussion, will notice that you've been proven wrong, even if you want to think you're right.
4. Your assesment of the relevance of the navy, the effectiveness of ships and how naval battles work based on some simulations and the performance of some mediocre military vessels in the 60's-70's is rather funny. I won't deconstruct and adress it right now-I'll leave that for my big post-, but I'll point out that you unveil a poor understanding of military strategy and tactics.
5. Please, don't double post unless it's absolutely necesary.

Tyrlop, I'll reply to you within my reply to RedSoviet.

Alex, how did you manage to compare T-90 and Abrams I wonder? Were you invited to some testing field or a joint military excersise?

Also, you've got your information teribly wrong. Funny enugh, I adress the same point you do in one of my previous posts. If you're interested in discussing that, please go back and read them. I hate having to repeat myself.

Also, the Black Eagle is not going to enter production in 2010 - it's the T-95 which is from a different design Bureau and has a different layout (unmanned turret as a main feature). And yes, Black Eagle and T-95 are two different tanks. One is the Obiekt 640 and the other is the Obiekt 195.

Will it be the best tank fielded by then? Quite probably. Will it be available in good enough numbers soon? I don't think so.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
RedSoviet
Member of the WR Committee


Posts : 1376
Join date : 2008-07-23
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Fri May 15, 2009 2:22 pm

i don't take you siryosly for long no, you don't understand what i all the time wannted to say

1.my country russia is rising and thats the only important part
2.russia did all major work in ussr, and the major part of ussr scintist were russian i never said all but the major part
3.russia was the leading power in ussr
4.with that logical russia is the major succesor to ussr, if you try to say further then russia is a lesser part of the ussr furthen, and other ussr country were more importender then i will just value you as crazy

that what i was and am all about all the time, to bad you don't have understanded it

to military i know much and you can't prove anything in military, then for every tactic, stategic ther is a counter tectic and strategic, its endless

and simulations showed that the navy is the most violative part, so long no major see war will start we have just simulations with we can work, everythign other is speculations

post or don'r post, i will then post this massege again, i now explaned my point easy enough to undestand

_________________


I make you DIE for what i believe
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Sat May 16, 2009 8:09 am

RedSoviet wrote:
i don't take you siryosly for long no, you don't understand what i all the time wannted to say

That's because you're to lazy to read what I write, not to mention try proving it wrong. I demonstrated you were wrong and that your facts are irrelevant to the discussion and you just dodged magistrally.

RedSoviet wrote:

1.my country russia is rising and thats the only important part
And my point is that it is not rising in many aspects and that it won't reach USSR.

RedSoviet wrote:

2.russia did all major work in ussr,

And this is supposed to mean?

RedSoviet wrote:

and the major part of ussr scintist were russian i never said all but the major part

You said "almost all", this implies around 80-95%, which is factually innacurate. Actually, Russian scientists in USSR, while indeed the major part were not

RedSoviet wrote:

3.russia was the leading power in ussr
Which I didn't deny. yet the USSR was not Russia and the countribution of the other republics was significant enough. Too significant to be neglected by some blindfolded russian nationalist.

RedSoviet wrote:

4.with that logical russia is the major succesor to ussr, if you try to say further then russia is a lesser part of the ussr furthen, and other ussr country were more importender then i will just value you as crazy

Why the fuck you don't read what I write and yet reply to it? I said Russia was 63% of USSR, the greatest part of it, but definitely not a succesor as it falls too short of potential.

RedSoviet wrote:

that what i was and am all about all the time, to bad you don't have understanded it

Says who? The one who hasn't adressed my points?

RedSoviet wrote:

to military i know much and you can't prove anything in military, then for every tactic, stategic ther is a counter tectic and strategic, its endless

You don't seem to know much, though. Downplaying the importance of the navy is an abhorent mistake, specially with the "arguements" you presented which definitely require you not knowing the kind of equipment installed on ships and the workability of those systems.

According to your logic even the Somalian pirates stand a big chance against all the navies of the world. also you missed more relevant modern naval engagements like Operation Praying Mantis, the Falklands War or very recently the sea scenario of the South Ossetia war. According to your arguements georgia could have inflicted inmense damage to the Russian Navy.

RedSoviet wrote:

and simulations showed that the navy is the most violative part, so long no major see war will start we have just simulations with we can work, everythign other is speculations

Those simulations are ost probably far from accurate, like those dicovery channel Lion vs Tiger simulations where the Lion beats the Tiger while you'll find dozens of videos of Tigers beating Lions or draws.

There are however, modern engagements that have occured, as recently as 2008. And there is also empirical knowledge available.

And, now I go with my big post which most probably you won't read but which will serve delightfully to prove yor points wrong, once again with extensive foundation.

RedSoviet wrote:

post or don'r post, i will then post this massege again, i now explaned my point easy enough to undestand
All you did, and anyone that reads our discussion can notice, is dodgning all my points.

Read or don't read, I don't care, I'll demonstrate you're wrong for what... the 5th time? It's a pitty there's no argumentative reciprocity from your part though.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Hutin
Komsomol Member


Posts : 169
Join date : 2009-01-24
Age : 25
Location : Soviet Socialist Republic of Quιbec

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Sat May 16, 2009 8:10 am

Believe me, red, this is going to get ugly.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Sat May 16, 2009 8:12 am

RedSoviet wrote:
and again FACTS:

GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate
- Total $2,261 trillion
- Per capita $15,922
GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate
- Total $1,676 trillion
- Per capita $11,807

CIA estimates its even much higher

HDI 0.806 and thats even from 2005 now its already much higher
Gini 40.5 same hear, thats from 2005 and is now already much lower


Since your entire premise is based on GDP, HDI and Gini, you first have to defend teh validity of these parameters within the discussion.

I disproved earlier the validity of those parameters to measure the economic potential and social wellbeing and development of a nation. If you intend to keep using these parameters, you have to refute my rebuttal of those parameters. If you fail to do so, those parameters are nothing but moot.


Tyrlop wrote:
i have to say something here, you said yourself before that it costed the soviet union millions and billions and trillions of dollars to make and maintain(conservate) and you are also pointing it out later in this post.

So? if you read my posts and notice the point I'm trying to make since the beggining of this discussion, you'll notice I'm adressing industrial output and potential, not the contradictory capitalisticity of the Soviet system.

Tyrlop wrote:

and about the scientist well there where more scientist then those examples you came with, and those examples you showed us didnt had one single russian scientist, so its hard for me to believe that you didnt remove all russian scientist and just pasted in some scientist from ussr that do not have russian origins hoverever i believe that you are right about the point you are trying to point out just that you are making it look like a lie. thats not good for the epos, and makes you look unbelievable or what its called. someone that you dont allways trust.

Very simple: he said nearly all Soviet Scientists were Russian. I gave him that relatively large list of non-Russian soviet Scientists to disprove his claim. Those are names that can be researched, those are people that existed and exist and some of them have been crucial to the development of science and technology not only within USSR, but within the entire world.

I didn't have to include a single Russian scientist as my objective was merely to point out the factual innacuracy of RedSoviet's assertion. He said nearly all Soviet scientists were Russian, and I gave him several examples of Non-russian Soviet scientists, that's all.


But for the sake of the arguement I'll do a Russian to Non-Russian Soviet scientist ratio chart to demonstrate that his assertion is wrong:

Non-Russian Soviet scientists:

1. Levan Chilashvili - Georgian - Archaelogist
2. Iosif Orbeli - Georgian - Archaeologist
3. Sergei Rudenko - Ukrainian - Archaeologist
4. Viktor Sarianidi - Uzbek/Greek - Archaeologist
5. Viktor Ambartsumian - Armenian - Astronomer/Physicist
6. Nikolay Barabashov - Ukrainian - Astronomer
7.Boris Gerasimovich - Ukrainian - Astronomer/astrophysicist
8. Grigor Gurzadyan - Armenian - Astronomer
9. Dmitriy Maksutov - Optician/Astronomer
10. Grigoriy Shayn - Ukrainian - Astronormer
11. Iosif Shklovskiy - Ukrainian - Astronomer
12. Vitautas Straizys - Lithuanian - Astronomer
13. Rashid Sunyaev - Uzbek - Astronomer/Astrophysicist
14. Garvil Tikhov - Belarussian - Astronomer
15. Mikheil Vashikdze - Georgian - Astronomer
16. Boris Vorontsov-Velyaminov - Ukrainian - Astronomer
17. Lyudmila Zhuravlyova - Ukrainian - Astronomer
18. Lina Stern - Latvian - Biochemist
19. Kanatyan Alibekov - Kazakh - Biologist
20. Guranda Gvalandze - Georgian - Biologist/Botanist
21. Augusts Kirhensteins - Latvian - Microbiologist/pro-soviet head of State
22. Pyotr Shirshov -Ukrainian-Oceanographer/Hydrobiologist/Explorer/Statesman
23. Vladimir Sukachyov - Ukrainian - Geobotanist/Engineer/Geographer
24. Aleksey Chichibabin - Ukrainian - Organic Chemist
25. Aleksandr Frumkin - Moldavian - Electrochemist
26. Ivan Kunyants - Armenian - Chemist
27. Sabir Yunusov - Uzbek - Chemist
28. Nikolai Yenikoplyan - Armenian - Chemist
29. Nikolai Zelinskiy - Transdnistrian (Moldavian)- Chemist
30. Boris Babayan - Azeri - Compuer Scientist/Supercomputer architect
31. Joel Barr/Iosif Berg - Ukraino-American - Electrical Engineer/Compuer Scientist/Spy
32. Leonid Levin - Ukrainian - Computer Scientist
33. Mark Nemenman - Belarussian - Computer Scientist/Programmer
34. Filip Staros/Alfred Sarant - Greco-American - Engineer/Spy/Computer Scientist
35. Boris Trakhtenbrot - Ukrainian - Computer Scientist
36. Vladimir Vapkin - Uzbek - Computer Scientist/Mathematician
37. Vahid Alakbarov - Azeri - Engineer/Energy Industry head/current plutocrat
38. Nikolai Baibakov - Azeri - Economist/Petrochemical Engineer/Statesman
39. Oleg Baklanov - Ukrainian - Engineer (member of the group that lead a coup d' etat against Gorbachyov)
40. Petro Balabuyev - Ukrainian - Aircraft Designer (Chief designer of the biggest Airplane in the world the An-225 and the largest mass-produced Aicraft until A-380, An-124)
41. Robert Bartini - Austro-Hungarian - Aircraft Designer (Worked at Beriev design Bureau)
42. Georgiy Beriev (Beriashvili) - Georgian - Aircraft Designer (Founder and Chief of Beriev Design Bureau, one of the most important Aircraft design Bureaus in USSR and the Russian Federation)
43. Matus Bisovat - Ukrainian- Aircraft Designer/Rocket Designer (Founder and Chief of Bisnovat Design Bureau. Director of KB Molniya, overseer of the design of Air-to Air missiles)
44. Viktor Chebrikov - Ukrainian - Metallugric Engineer/KGB member (Ordered KAL-007 to be shot down)
45. Karapet Chobanyan - Armenian born in Georgia - Metallurgic Engineer (Developed revolutionary methods of welding in USSR)
46. Aleksandr Dabravolski - Belarussian- Radio Physicist/Lawyer/Policician
47. Boris Delibash - Georgian - Industrial Engineer (Director of CentreElectroMontazh, which built several prominent structures including the Ostankino Tower in Moscow and Sputnik-1)
48. Gervorg Emin - Armenian - Hydraulic Engineer/Poet/essayist/translator (Designed and supervised construction of a hydroelectric plant that has been providing exlectricity for almost 70 years)
49. Valentin Glushko - Ukrainian - Space Engineer (One of the Three main Chief Designers of the whole Soviet Space program)
50. Dmitriy Grigorovich - Ukrainian - Aircraft designer (Created several planes that were used during WWII. Worked together with Polikarpov for the same purpose)
51. Henrikas Juskevicius - Lithuanian - Electrical Engineer (Vice-Chairman of USSR State comittee for Television and Radio Broadcasting)
52. Paris Herouni - Armenian - Radio Physicist/Radio Engineer/Radio Astronomer
53. Khanon Izakson - Ukrainian - Mechanical Engineer (Prominent for his development of Agricultural machines)
54. Yuriy Kondratyuk - Ukrainian - Engineer (Moon Travel Theory pioneer)
55. Sergei Korolyov - Ukrainian - Rocket designer/Space Engineer (One of the three Chief designers [he was the main designer] of the whole Soviet Space and Ballistic Missiles programmes. Was born in the same city as my grandfather)
56. Semyon Kosberg - Belarusian - Rocket and Aircraft engine designer/Doctor of Technical Sciences
57. Alish Lambaranski - Azeri - Petrochemical Engineer
58. Gleb Lozino-Lozinskiy - Ukrainian - Aicraft Designer/Doctor of Science (Director of Molniya, as mentioned, one of the main missile and rocket manufacturers in USSR and Russian Federation; Chief designer of the Buran Soviet Space Shuttle; Participated in the creation of the Mig-29 and Mig-31, two of the main Russian Air Superiority and multirole fighters)
59. Lev Lyulyev - Ukrainian - Aeronautic Engineer/Designer of Anti-Aircraft systems and missiles/Doctor of Technical Sciences (Director of Novator, Nowadays OKB Lyulyev, named after him, where the best anti-aircraft missiles of the world were designed and are built; Supervised the creation of the majority of the most advanced Soviet and current Russian SA anti-aircraft, anti-subimarine missiles and missile-countermeasures)
60. Kahar Mahkamov - Tajik - Engineer (Chief director of economic centralization in Tadjikistan. Later became leader of Tajikistan)
61. Ludwig Martens - Ukrainian - Engineer (Revolutionary, worked closely to Lenin and Martov. Had a political career within USSR)
62. Boris Mikhailov - Ukrainian - Engineer/Autodidact photographer (most prominent photo-artist in Eastern Europe.
63. Aleksandr Morozov - Engineer/Tank Designer (Led development for MBTs T-44, T-54 and T-64, the latter of which was the best tank in the world on its time and served as the basis for the most advanced tank fielded by the USSR, the T-80)
64. Nikolai Kuznetsov - Kazakh - Aircraft Engine designer (Co-worked with Klimov, became Chief Engineer of OKB-267 Aircraft Engine design Bureau. Developed the engines for the first commercial supersonic airplane which became the basis for the engines, designed by him as well of the Soviet strategic supersonic bomber Tu-160)
65. Boris Paton - Ukrainian - Doctor in Technical sciences (specialist in welding techniques; Chairman of National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine)
66. Yevgenniy Paton - Ukrainian - Engineer (Designed Dresden's train Station structure and founded the Paton Electric Welding Institute; his works in welding were applied for the construction of tanks, steam boilers and ships)
67. Nikolai Ryzhkov - Ukrainian - Engineer/Technocrat/Politician
68. Pavel Sukhoi - Belarussian - Aircraft Designer (Founder of Sukhoi Design Bureu [in Kharkov, Ukraine], USSR's and Russian main air-superiority, multirole and ground attack fighter design bureau. Designed all Sukhoi fighters until the Su-27's prototype, this being the basis of the most advanced Soviet and Russian fighters)
69. Nikolai Tikhonov - Ukrainian - Metallurgic Engineer/Chairman of teh council of Ministers of USSR
70. Fyodor Tokarev - Small arms designer (Designed Tokarev pistol and STV-40 automatic rifle)
71. Adolf Tolkachev - Kazakh - Electronics' Engineer and Asshole (one of main Intelligence providers for CIA; executed in 1986 for treason)
72. Oleg Tozoni - Kazakh - Electrodynamic and Electric Engineer (Head of Electrodyunamics and Cybernetics Department in USSR)
73. Sergei Tumanskiy - Belarussian - Mechanical Engineer (Designer of some of the most important models of Aircraft Engines within USSR)
74. Oleksandr Gamarsh - Ukrainian - Mechanical Engineer (Designed and supervised construction of more than 15 arched Bridges, Shoe manufacture plants and sewage systems; Contributed to the creation of the Dniepr Hydroelectric Plant)
75. Lev Berg - Moldova (Transdnistria) - Geographer
76. Nikolai Korzhenevskiy - Belarussian - Geographer/Glaciologist/Explorer
77. Georgi Boyko - Ukrainian - Petroleum Geologist
78. Viktor Linetskiy - Ukrainian - Petroleum Hydrogeologist
79. Farman Salmanov - Azeri - Geologist (Discovered many important oil fields in Siberia)
80. Aleksandr Avaladze - Georgian - Historian
81. Giuli Alasania - Georgian - Historian/Doctor of Sciences
82. Iosif Amusin - Belarussian - Historian/Orientalist/hebraist/Papyrologist
83. Aram Ter-Ghevondyan - Armenian - Historian
84. Badrat Ulubabyan - Armenian - Historian/writer
85. Hrach Bartikyan - Armenian - Historian
86. Mitrofan Donvar-Zapol'skiy - Belarussian - Historian/Ethnographer
87. Boris Grekov - Ukrainian - Historian (focused on Kievan Rus and the Golden Horde)

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Zealot_Kommunizma
Hero of the World Republic


Posts : 5413
Join date : 2007-12-06
Age : 28
Location : Mexico/Russia/Worl

PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Sat May 16, 2009 8:13 am

88. Nikoloz Janashia - Georgian - Historian
89. Yuriy Knorozov - Ukrainian - Epigrapher/Historian/Linguist/Ethnographer (deciphered Mayan and several other pre-Culumbine mesoamerican scriptures)
90. Sergo Mikoyan - Armenian - Historian (Specialist in USSR foreign policies towards USA and Latin America)
91. Lyudmila Pavlichenko - Ukrainian - Historian (She was among the most prominent female Snipers in WWII)
92. Suren Yeremyan - Armenian - Historian/Cartographer
93. Yevgenniy Tarle - Ukrainian - Historian (Co-founder of the Moscow Institute of International Relations)
94. Sofya Yanovskaya - Belarussian - Historian/Mathematician (restored the study of mathematical logic within USSR and edited Mathematical Works by Karl Marx)
95. Karen Yuzbashyan – Aermenian born in Georgia – Historian
96. Aleksandr Freiman – Polish – Linguist (Specialist in Iranian languages)
97. Voroshil Gukasyan – Armenian – Linguist/Caucasologist (Specialist in Udi language)
98. Vladislav Ilich-Svytich – Ukrainian – Linguist (co-faunder of Nostratic studies; created the first Russo-Macedonian dictionary)
99. Yuriy Knorozov – Ukrainian – Linguist/Epigrapher/Ethnographer
100. Nicholas Marr – Georgian – Linguist (Proponent of monogenetic theory of language)
101. Kasym Tynystanov – Kyrgiz – Linguist (Preserved Kyrgiz oral traditions, contributed to Kyrgiz linguistics. Improved Kyrgiz educational systems in all fields)
102. Sergei Adian – Armenian – Mathematician
103. Naum Akhiezer – Belarussian – Mathematician
104. Suren Arakelov – Ukrainian – Mathematician
105. Vladimir Arnold – Ukrainian – Mathematician
106. Sergei Bernstein – Ukrainian – Mathematician
107. Nikolai Chebotaryov – Ukrainian – Mathematician
108. Stephan Cohn-Vossen – Germano-Polish – Mathematician
109. Vladimir Drinfeld – Ukrainain – Mathematician (With notable contributions in the field of mathematical physics)
110. Abram Fet – Ukrainian – Mathematician
111. Israel Gelfand – Ukrainian – Mathematician
112. Israel Gohberg – Ukrainian – Mathematician
113. Veniamin Kagan – Lithuanian – Mathematician
114. Mstislav Keldish – Latvian – Mathematician (notable for studies on Mechanics)
115. Estate Khmaladze – Georgian – Mathematician/Statistician
116. Naum Krasner – Ukrainian – Mathematician
117. Mark Krasnosel’skiy – Ukrainian – Mathematician (renowned for functional analysis)
118. Mikhail Kravchuk – Ukrainian – Mathematician
119. Mark Krein – Ukrainian – Mathematician
120. Yevgenniy Landis – Ukrainian – Mathematician
121. Leonid Levin – Ukrainian – Mathematician/Computer Scientist
122. Yuriy Linnik – Ukrainian – Mathematician (notable for works on number theory, probability theory and mathematical statistics)
123. Lazar Lyusternik – Polish – Mathematician/Topologist (Notable for his work on differential geometry)
124. Yuriy Manin – Ukrainian - Mathematician/Theoretical Physicist (Notable for works not mathematical logic and algebraic geometry)
125. David Milman – Ukrainian - Mathematician
126. Pierre Milman – Ukrainian - Mathematician
127. Vitaliy Milman – Ukrainian – Mathematician
128. Yuriy Mitropolskiy – Ukrainian – Mathematician
129. Herman Mόntz – Germano-Polish – Mathematician
130. Nikoloz Muskhelishvili – Georgian – Mathematician
131. Mark Naimark – Ukrainian – Mathematician
132. Olga Oleinik – Ukrainian – Mathematician
133. Vladimir Platonov – Belarussian – Mathematician
134. Abraham Plessner – Polish – Mathematician
135. Vladimir Potapov – Ukrainian – Mathematician
136. Evgenniy Remez – Ukrainian – Mathematician
137. Viktor Sadovnichiy – Ukrainian – Mathematician
138. Igor Shafarevich – Ukrainian – Mathematician (Interestingly he’s been one of the staunchest nationalist figures in… Ukraine? No… Russia!)
139. Anatoliy Skorokhod – Ukrainian – Mathematician
140. Valeriy Glivenko – Ukrainian – Mathematician
141. Ilya Vekua – Georgian – Mathematician
142. Vadim Vizing – Ukrainian – Mathematician
143. Isaak Yaglom – Ukrainian – Mathematician
144. Svyatoslav Fyodorov – Ukrainian – Ophthalmologist/Micro surgeon/Politician (created radial keratotomy)
145. Gavril Ilizarov – Belarusian – Surgeon/Orthopedist
146. Marcus Klingberg – Polish – Epidemiologist/Spy
147. Bronislava Poskrebysheva – Ukrainian – Doctor-Endocrinologist
148. Yuriy Senkevich – Polish born in Mongolia – Physician/writer/explorer
149. Johannes Vares – Estonian – Physician/Poet/Politician
150. Genrik Altshuller – Uzbek – Engineer/Journalist/Sci-Fi writer (Created the “Theory of Inventive Problem Solving or ‘TIPS’”)
151. Yuriy Bandazhevskiy – Belarussian – Anatomic Pathologist (Established an institute devoted entirely to assess the effects Chernobyl disaster)
152. Vladimir Chelomei – Ukrainian born in Poland – Mechanics’ scientist/Rocket Engineer (Developed Cruise missiles since 1944 until his death in 1984; Designed several important ICBMs including the UR-500 which served as the basis to launch Soviet Satellites and all Soviet and Russian Space Stations including two modules for the current International Space Station; Several satellites were designed and built under his direction; Director of OKB 52 “NPO Mashinostroeniya” which was responsible for the creation of all advanced cruise missiles like the P-70, BrahMos, P-500 Bazalt, P-700 Granit and P-800 Oniks)
153. Heydar Huseynov – Azeri – Philosopher
154. Kanish Satpayev – Kazakh – Mining Enginer/Geologist (co-founder of Soviet metallogeny)
155. Georgiy Kechaari – Azeri – Linguist/Educator
156. Kerim Kerimov – Azeri – Rocket Engineer (co-founder of the soviet space programme and one of the lead engineers behind most of the projects)
157. Georgiy Langemak – Ukrainian – Rocket designer (Participated in the creation of the Katyusha rockets)
158. Aleksandr Lerner – Ukrainian – Electrical Engineer (Notable for his works on metallurgic plants)
159. Yuriy Levada – Ukrainian – Sociologist
160. Arkhip Lyulka – Ukrainian – Jet Engine Designer (Designer of first entirely indigenous [and most successful] Soviet Jet engines by refusing to reverse-engineer western engines; founder of Lyulka Design Bureau, the Bureau responsible for the creation of the engines on the main Soviet and Russian fighters; Died designing the AL-31 family of military turbofan engines basis for many civilian and military engine projects around the world)
161. Shafik Chokin – Kazakh – Agricultural Eenergeticist
162. Stanislav Shuchkevich – Belarusian – Physicist/Mathematician/Leader of Independent Belarus

163. Norair Sissakian – Armenian – Biochemist (co-founder of Space biology)
164. Mikhail Voslenskiy – Historian/Sociologist/writer
165. Friederich Zander – Latvian – Rocket Scientist (Designed first liquid fuel to be used by USSR, provided several theoretical basis for rocketry and together with Tsiolkovskiy and Kondratyuk founded de Society for Studies of Interplanetary Travel)

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://unitedrevleftfront.forumotion.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Happy Victory Day!   Today at 7:35 am

Back to top Go down
 
Happy Victory Day!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Similar topics
-
» BEAUTIFUL BRIDE AND HER HAPPY GROOM
» Mandri -> happy heavenly birthday to Kean & Karlo
» Happy Endings
» How to keep your boyfriend happy
» Parents of Holly Wells do not believe in happy ending for McCanns (and have sympathy for them)

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
World Republic :: Capitol of the World Republic :: Red Square-
Jump to: