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Liche
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PostSubject: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 9:46 pm

I was on RevLeft (Ive started reading threads there and stuff) and some one was complaining that AntiFa was declared as Extremsits. I mean, isnt it kind of obvious that AntiFa are Extremists? I support AntiFa, and am not at all offended by these claims, I mean it is the truth.
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 9:47 pm

What's AntiFa?

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 9:54 pm

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
What's AntiFa?
Anti Fascism. A group of Communists against fascism. Theirs a poster for them in someones quote, I think AlekA4.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 9:57 pm

I don't even see the relevance of the term "extremist".

As I see them, they're the physical response to a physical aggression.

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Tyrlop
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 10:30 pm

wtf is an extremist i ask.
Antifascistishe aktion was born in the Weimar Republic and fought together with Roter Frontkämpferbund against the fascists.

today they are very irrelevant, since fascism can be fought in many other ways, if you example look at germany (and specialy former east germany) that have banned nazism(also sweden and serval other countries, russia too i think) they got very high amount of nazis even though they are banned, and if you look at denmark there are only 50 members of the danish nazi party (DNSAP) and they are not banned.

I dont support Antifa for some of their actions since they are very hyppocrite, they fight fascism with fascism i say.
i liked them more back in the weimar republic, at that time they could have saved germany.

But right now im kinda split i understand and support them in countries like sweden and germany. but in denmark they are acctually just attracting more people to the nazi parties since most members just want to fight.

fight fire with fire? uhm
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Mon May 25, 2009 11:52 pm

Tyrlop wrote:

I dont support Antifa for some of their actions since they are very hyppocrite, they fight fascism with fascism i say.


Indeed!!

They suck, they claim that many people are "fascist", and they atelast here, many fights in demonstrations of right wing guys, mostly then nationalists or populist supporters.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 12:45 am

Tyrlop wrote:
I dont support Antifa for some of their actions since they are very hyppocrite, they fight fascism with fascism i say.

You don't know what fascism is, do you? If so, define it.



Tyrlop wrote:

fight fire with fire? uhm

No, more like providing material, that is, tangible and actually useful protection to physically endagered groups.

CKX wrote:
They suck, they claim that many people are "fascist", and they atelast here, many fights in demonstrations of right wing guys, mostly then nationalists or populist supporters.

I didn't qute get what you tried to express here.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 12:50 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


I didn't qute get what you tried to express here.
That they suck, and they usually start fighting over the place and all.
Mostly if right-qing natioanlists are demonstrating or a right wing politician is visisting a town, they like to make a riot and all.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 12:55 am

CoolKidX wrote:

That they suck, and they usually start fighting over the place and all.
Mostly if right-qing natioanlists are demonstrating or a right wing politician is visisting a town, they like to make a riot and all.

Oh ok then.

Then I support them. If a guy is openly saying "If we win, we're gonna beat the living crap out of you" then I don't see why the reply "Not if we beat you first" is wrong, or at least not understandable, specially when the group that is responding to threat does not recognize the institutional system of the status quo.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 1:02 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

If a guy is openly saying "If we win, we're gonna beat the living crap out of you"
Yea but that doesnt say the nationalists.
They just dont like nationalists, if they just demonstrate against, wtf they want, islamisation or tradittional killing, or no turkey in EU or even the enviroement. They just come and fight, it happens many times that the AntiFa guys start, not all the time ofcourse.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

then I don't see why the reply "Not if we beat you first" is wrong,
A eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, hmmm?
[/quote]

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 1:18 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Tyrlop wrote:
I dont support Antifa for some of their actions since they are very hyppocrite, they fight fascism with fascism i say.

You don't know what fascism is, do you? If so, define it.


i do i do,
first you define so i can copy and paste. nah bad joke.

FASCISM is punish people for being diffrent.
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 1:39 am

CoolKidX wrote:

Yea but that doesnt say the nationalists.
They just dont like nationalists, if they just demonstrate against, wtf they want, islamisation or tradittional killing, or no turkey in EU or even the enviroement. They just come and fight, it happens many times that the AntiFa guys start, not all the time ofcourse.

Nationalists are right wing coercers, they favour coercion over the people that inhabits those countries. AntiFa is against coercion so they attack the coercers.

CKX wrote:

A eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, hmmm?

Nope. Stop a comming fist with your hand and punch back to disable te agressor. They're not killing them, they're preventing them to harm or kill somebody else.

Tyrlop wrote:
FASCISM is punish people for being diffrent.

That's militant and punitive discrimination. Also, AntiFa doesn't do that, they most often attack right-wing aggressors.

So, what's fascism again?

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 1:53 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Nationalists are right wing coercers, they favour coercion over the people that inhabits those countries. AntiFa is against coercion so they attack the coercers.
Dont have to be, and if they dont d anything, a riot, destory things, the nationalists do nothing, but their ideas are coercen, its okay to attack them, first?
Just because of their idea's?
And who says it contains coerces?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Nope. Stop a comming fist with your hand and punch back to disable te agressor. They're not killing them, they're preventing them to harm or kill somebody else.
A comming fist? Haha, what you try to say, or sound, is that these nationalists actually will rule the country, dude, you should know better that, that not will happen, just a small ass guys who are nationalist, like small ass commies.
They dont stop a comming fist, they think they do that, while they are the comming fist to the nationalists. Cuz they get attacked.
And attacking someone for a idea, is NOT right. You agree?

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 3:31 am

Tyrlop wrote:

fight fire with fire? uhm
u cant put out a fire with a flamethrower, can you?
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 4:18 am

comrade110397 wrote:
Tyrlop wrote:

fight fire with fire? uhm
u cant put out a fire with a flamethrower, can you?
haha, hes not agreeing with the analogy hes declaring they do it.
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 5:51 am

CoolKidX wrote:

Dont have to be, and if they dont d anything, a riot, destory things, the nationalists do nothing, but their ideas are coercen, its okay to attack them, first?

It's ok to disrupt their meetings or to go and refute them. Yet I have never read or heard of anti-fa attacking non-aggressive groups.

Could you provide a source?

CKX wrote:

Just because of their idea's?
Because of their practices.

CKX wrote:

And who says it contains coerces?
Every state and/or class based system contains coercion.



CKX wrote:
A comming fist? Haha, what you try to say, or sound, is that these nationalists actually will rule the country, dude, you should know better that, that not will happen, just a small ass guys who are nationalist, like small ass commies.

So it has been said of many groups. And it's not only in regards to wether they'll rule the country or not, it's in regards of what they suport and may practice.

As for communism, wait until people are aware. I don't think most people are too stupid to accept being exploited once they realize how that works, was originated and the alternatives to it.

CKX wrote:

They dont stop a comming fist, they think they do that, while they are the comming fist to the nationalists. Cuz they get attacked.
Show me please a source (reliable one, not biased) where AntiFa starts the aggression.

CKX wrote:

And attacking someone for a idea, is NOT right. You agree?

Depends on the context. If I know of a group of neonazis who often beat black and azn guys and such, even if tehy've done nothing to me it'd be quite worth combatively disabling them.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 11:13 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Tyrlop wrote:
FASCISM is punish people for being diffrent.

That's militant and punitive discrimination. Also, AntiFa doesn't do that, they most often attack right-wing aggressors.

So, what's fascism again?
FASCISM is punish people for not obeying.
Fascism got one strong leader like in the stoneage.
fascism is violence against all kind of enemies of the state.
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 8:50 pm

Tyrlop wrote:

FASCISM is punish people for not obeying.
Fascism got one strong leader like in the stoneage.
fascism is violence against all kind of enemies of the state.

Seems a bit more like it, so:

AntiFa is not emitting orders - so they don't punish for not obeying.
AntiFa has got no leadership, specially not based on strength.
AntiFa does not protect the state, it is against it - so it doesn't procure violence against the enemies of the state. It is an enemy of teh state.

Therefore in which way, according to the definition you gave of fasicsm is AntiFa fascist? Because if you stick to that definition, then you're disagreeing with yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 11:04 pm

At Tyrlop: Fascism is radical Nationalists and Corporitists got together and designed there own political philosophy, it has nothing to do with prejudice towards others, bascially just thinking your country is better than every one elses. *cough* Alex *cough*. However, Fascism usually dose come with some sort of hate towards one or more particular groups.

And The Definition of Extremists:
Individuals or groups outside the political center of a society.

Lets see, the political center of Modern society is Liberal Conservative. AntiFa is outside of this center is it not?
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 11:06 pm

Liche wrote:
At
And The Definition of Extremists:
Individuals or groups outside the political center of a society.

Lets see, the political center of Modern society is Liberal Conservative. AntiFa is outside of this center is it not?

You better define "political center" and why that concept is even valid.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 11:19 pm

Liche wrote:
*cough* Alex *cough*.
LOL!

liche wrote:
Lets see, the political center of Modern society is Liberal Conservative.
Yes, in America, but in Europa, are way more idealogies in the center.
I'd say the 3 most common or atleast with more hsitory of politics in Europa. Are, Christian Democracy, Social Democracy and Liberalism.
And then a few side one's. Mainly the die hard more left then Soc-Dem, Socialists, the Greens, and Conservatives.
Some times the Socialists and Conservatives get big, bigger then sometimes the 3.
But Green, I never see be that big in atleast Holland and Germany. Its not that big.
So ya, but anyways AntiFa aren't in any of those.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Tue May 26, 2009 11:57 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Liche wrote:
At
And The Definition of Extremists:
Individuals or groups outside the political center of a society.

Lets see, the political center of Modern society is Liberal Conservative. AntiFa is outside of this center is it not?

You better define "political center" and why that concept is even valid.
The polticial center is the common belief of the masses.

Christian Democracy= Conservative
Social Democracy = A median in its self
Liberalism = Liberalism

2/3rds of these are Conservative or Liberal, and inbetween that you have Liberal Conservatives. If you have 3 choices, two extremes, and one in between example: a sheet that has three choices, good ok and bad. The average person nearly one hundred percent of the time is going to chose ok, the one in between.
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Wed May 27, 2009 12:26 am

Liche wrote:

The polticial center is the common belief of the masses.

Christian Democracy= Conservative
Well Christian Democrats claim to be in the middle, tho they mostly are centre-right. So anyways, they are conservatives on religious laws and shit, like dont push or hurry with gay marriadge for example or abortion etc.
But further they are just a bs idealogy about aids and shit.

Liche wrote:

2/3rds of these are Conservative or Liberal, and inbetween that you have Liberal Conservatives. If you have 3 choices, two extremes, and one in between example: a sheet that has three choices, good ok and bad. The average person nearly one hundred percent of the time is going to chose ok, the one in between.

Yes, but that are of the main 3 then, besied that there are many left parties in pairlemants, some small, some a little bigger. Ya know just yelling and not coming with solutions etc.

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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Wed May 27, 2009 8:23 pm

Franco was a conservative. end of discussion, he adapted some beliefs from the fascist idealogy. but today the conservatives dont want to "accept" franco as a conservative, well at least conservatives from not spain.
religious-conservatism
Social-conservatism
liberal-conservatism
they are all very dangerous, dont trust a conservative. conservatives is the suckage of the world, they dont believe in progress of any kind, i can understand liberals but SHIT to the conservative parties, isnt it time to get up from the basement? doesnt matter if you take the stairs or the ladder...
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PostSubject: Re: AntiFa   Wed May 27, 2009 8:46 pm

Viva Antifa!

Quote :
A group of Communists against fascism.

It's not just one group, and it's certainly not only communists involved. It also includes anarchists and some softer leftists.

Antifa is a tag more than anything, and it's been used to identify a ton of different groups who oppose, whether militantly or pacifistically, fascism and racism.

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