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 Nobility in Socialism?

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Liche
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PostSubject: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:16 am

As we know, in "communist countries" (please note the quotation marks) there has been obvious forms of nobility. Castro, Lenin, USSR propeganda paintings, KGB members, etc.

But, do you think there would be a form of nobility in an actual Communist society? Maybe, one who stands above others, dosent have other rites, but is noted by his peers as one of nobility? Not a family or self given title, but one give to a person by the people?

I've just been thinking of this a lot for a while, and decided to get the opinions of some other people. Capitalists, feel free to express yourselves as well.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:09 pm

well I think that nobility goes against every meaning of communism.
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:28 pm

No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely not, no way, never, not even in your worst nightmare.
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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:19 pm

In the dream of 'real' Communsim, it won't. But yeah it will end up with a new group or people who get nobilty. Stronger survives, for both in Anarchism and Communism.

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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:50 pm

^^^ Social Darwinism is idiotic. Nothing personal.

WeiWuWei wrote:
No, no, no, no, no, no, absolutely not, no way, never, not even in your worst nightmare.

Seconded. Nobility is a privileged state position; No state, no nobility.

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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:15 pm

Well, as I said. I dont mean rights over anyone else. I guess like "hero of Socialist Labor" kind of thing.
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Tyrlop
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:24 pm

no but kim il sung goes as an exeption couse he saved north korea from usa canibals
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:43 pm

Black_Cross wrote:
^^^ Social Darwinism is idiotic. Nothing personal.


Yes it is, why should that be personal?

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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:54 am

Why bring up social darwinsism? I stressed the fact that I mean they wouldnt be superior, just recognized as nobles.
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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:32 pm

Liche wrote:
Well, as I said. I dont mean rights over anyone else. I guess like "hero of Socialist Labor" kind of thing.

Then yes; Durruti would be an apt example

CKX wrote:
Yes it is, why should that be personal?

The argument you employed was social-darwinist.

Quote :
I stressed the fact that I mean they wouldnt be superior, just recognized as nobles.

Nobles, by definition, are above society as they are bound to the state; That's just not the word you want to use.

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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:30 pm

Durruti!
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:49 am

So, are you saying Durruti was a Social Darwinist?
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:17 am

In all honesty, I'm kind of opposed to the idea of "heroes." I might actually post a thread about it - of course, after I get all this fucking studying done.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:54 am

Haha cool man.

Im kind of opposed to it too, I was just wondering your guys opinion. Of course I think we should remember people, but when some when gets "hero status" they start to become douchebags.

Or more likely allready are.
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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:00 pm

Liche wrote:
So, are you saying Durruti was a Social Darwinist?

Who are you talking to?

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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:30 am

Black_Cross wrote:
Liche wrote:
So, are you saying Durruti was a Social Darwinist?

Who are you talking to?
WeiWeiWu

Or myself if no one is listening.
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:49 am

Liche wrote:
Black_Cross wrote:
Liche wrote:
So, are you saying Durruti was a Social Darwinist?

Who are you talking to?
WeiWeiWu

Or myself if no one is listening.

Whoops, thought you were referring to BC.

Okay, I'll say this pretty plainly: no, I don't think Durruti was a Social Darwinist for a number of reasons.

A.) I think his role as the sort of de facto leader of the Spanish revolutionaries was not so much a firmly established, organizational pattern. It was more of a recognition that he was the face of the movement, but not necessarily the main operator behind it.

B.) As a standard, I don't necessarily think that all "nobles" are Social Darwinists, which has a very specific meaning, and it would be somewhat anachronistic to call "nobles" Social Darwinists when the ideas of Social Darwinism really only came about around the late 19th century. Nobles were around way, way before Social Darwinism even existed.

However, even if we were to try to refer to nobles as Social Darwinists, most nobles didn't legitimize themselves by what would be considered Social Darwinist arguments. I think that they believed that their right to rule came from God - Divine Right of Kings - and by hereditary succession. Social Darwinism argues that certain groups of people are naturally superior to others, and, to be totally fair, I don't think nobles necessarily viewed themselves as being naturally superior to their subjects; their title was simply an endowment bestowed to them by a higher power or by their bloodline.

Holy shit, I went way off track with this one.

Anyway, no, I don't think Durruti was a Social Darwinist, nor do I think that any "nobles" were.

And, also, I don't think Durruti was a noble - quite contrarily, I think that he was a kickass motherfucker, straight up.

Much respect.

One final note: by default, I think that all Capitalists are Social Darwinists.
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:13 am

WeiWuWei wrote:

One final note: by default, I think that all Capitalists are Social Darwinists.

I could not agree with you more. :3 Im taking socialogy class in my college at the moment, and hearing what Soc-Darwinism had to offer...

Not exactly half fair to others. It's like implying if you have a child with a genetic mutation, then that defect makes them "inferior" to the parents/other human beings.

Social-Darwinism = not my cup of tea.

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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: Nobility in Socialism?   Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:14 am

I think one might need to have have some serious mental health issues for Social Darwinism to be there cup of tea.
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