How badly were the Russians treated by the Nazis

Did the Russians actually treat the Germans that badly on WWII? Would you like to see the atrocities that occurred to the Russian people? Please look at this- look at all of it and look at what happened to the Russian people. and CKX, you defend Hitler, you don't remember these people?

this is what to do. Go to: http://www.russian-victories.ru/ and go approximately halfway down the page. Look for a section called The Russians: Who Are We?

Part Two

By Michael Kuznetsov

please read it and look at all of th pictures. Look how the Russians were treated. Who supports what happened? Who doesn't care for these people?
Who remembers these people?

Why does my name come up in every thread you make lately?
I come up for Hitler? Oh yeah, where did I say that?
And I think your title is wrong, how badly were the NAZI's treated by the GERMANS, isnt it suppose to be how bad were the GERMANS treated by the RUSSIANS?

And you dont remember the people of the Katyn massacre or the people with trauma's by the rapings? Dont get me this stupid shit like that you sound like a Americna patriot backing the troops. And then most liekly showing a image of lil kids getting killed, then with a text saying "This isnt freedom and liberty, USA is bringing them liberty and freedom GO USA OMFG". Just a small example.

please keep private arguments private.

Alex, Im just gonna assume you want attention and this is why your posting your private arguments with CKX.

Consider this both of your first warning.

CoolKidX wrote:

Why does my name come up in every thread you make lately?
I come up for Hitler? Oh yeah, where did I say that?
And I think your title is wrong, how badly were the NAZI's treated by the GERMANS, isnt it suppose to be how bad were the GERMANS treated by the RUSSIANS?

And you dont remember the people of the Katyn massacre or the people with trauma's by the rapings? Dont get me this stupid shit like that you sound like a Americna patriot backing the troops. And then most liekly showing a image of lil kids getting killed, then with a text saying "This isnt freedom and liberty, USA is bringing them liberty and freedom GO USA OMFG". Just a small example.

Did you even read it? No, its not. Its showing Russain medics treating german POWs, Russains giving the Germans food, and German soldiers smiling next to hanged Russian soldiers, a picture of a Russian soldier crucified to a wall, pictures of children crying on their mother's dead bodies, Russian soldiers digging their own graves and then being shot as German take pictures. If you can't even look at the link, just look at this one picture of Russian children whos families have been murdered. http://www.russian-victories.ru/no_mom_no_home.jpg

Yeah, the Russians got it bad, but that doesn't justify their subsequent treatment of the Germans.

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Yeah, the Russians got it bad, but that doesn't justify their subsequent treatment of the Germans.

No, but certainly explains it. Plus renders obsolete any attempt at glamorizing the Wermacht.

As an aspiring historian and history teacher, these threads always bug me.

WeiWuWei wrote:

As an aspiring historian and history teacher, these threads always bug me.

In which way?

Katyn was a lie, so was Holodomor. the germans did Katyn!

http://www.russian-victories.ru/ is a fucked up retarded site, its all like "RUSSIA IS BEST", and that US shit patriotism, a perfect site for you Alex indeed.

Look at this from the site.

Quote :

RUSSIAN SOLDIERS
ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD
NOT ONLY A TEAM BUT A TRUE BROTHERHOOD
"ONE FOR ALL – ALL FOR ONE!"

Haha, THE BEST IN THA WORLD.

Quote :

GOD IS ALWAYS WITH US:
RUSSIAN SOLDIERS MOVING TO WAR

Oh god is in it now, replace Russia with USA and you get US conservative shit patriotism.

I mean shit alex that site is total shit and I think it like's stalin or something I saw at the end, not sure, but what a dumb site "LOOK AT WHAT RUSSIA HAS WON!", and then posting shit about how Russia for example was Miss World 2008, yay, you do realize you can see how capitalistic place of shit Russia has turned into.


Also, officers of the red army while being on Germans soul, they could punish every german.

Newspapers wrote that and red officers confirmed it, and this is what a author from a soviet newspaper even said.
"The Germans have been punished in Oppeln, in Königsberg, and in Breslau. They have been punished, but yet not enough! Some have been punished, but not yet all of them."

Look at how many massacres the Soviets did, killing civilians, kids, old people, raping girls and women.

Killing civilians in German villages(Nemmersdorf massacre for example).

The Germans killed alot of Russian civilians, yes, but does that make the Russians have a reason to kill their civilians? Make them as low as them. And if you believe it is ok for the russians to pull that kinda shit, then you disgust me even more.

CoolKidX, I partially agree with you in your criticism of what I call "Russian Pseudopatriotism".

Also, I do condemn any rape and murder commited by Soviet troops while on their advance towards Germany and, more importantly, during the joint Soviet-German invasion of Poland.

However, and these are undeniable facts:

1) The Wermacht was in an offensive possition, that is, they wer the aggressors and so it was they who started these massacres. Judging by USSR-German relations in the couple of years prior to Operation Barbarossa, all these violations of human dignity carried out by some red army soldiers would have not happened.

2) The Wermacht was serving a state that outright considered the Soviets and in general any Slavic people inferior and so deserving of either destruction or at least servitude. The Wermacht's offensive had the outright objective of subjugating a people considered inferior by those who sent them to battle in the first place.

3) Human dignity violations carried out by the German armed forces within the territory they conquered were far more widespread than those carried out by the Soviet Armed forces within Eastern and Central European territories. This being in part product of the abovementioned premise of the German armed forces - subdue and/or destroy inferior peoples and expand the territory of Germany.

3.1) Unlike the implication of the presence Soviet armed forces within militarily controled territories, the Wermacht's presence implied both de facto genocides as product of military operations and systematic genocides.
Both, again, product of the policies and ideology proclaimed by the Germans.

Due to the above some of the conclusions that can be drawn and which I want to point out are that:

1) The proportion in which the German armed forces performed these actions were in far a larger proportion than that performed by the Soviet Armed forces. Furthermore, the implications of the Soviet armed forces presence was by far less severe than that of the German armed forces.

2) While these actions were not condoned by the Soviet state and in several cases were even punished by death, the German state created an entire ideology promoting this kind of behaviour and even rewarded its soldiers for being particularily efficient in performing this endeavour. Implying thus the deliberate intention to carry out these actions without even prior provokation by the aggravated side.

3) Since the Germans were the ones to start and given the proportion of their actions within Soviet territory, the emotional implications within the Soviet population and thus its armed forces mus be understandable: The german armed forces invasion implied that millions of people lost parents, friends, brothers and overall loved ones. It implied the destruction of the Soviet people's material patrimony. It implied the systematic prosecution and elimination en masse of Soviet people. It implied the humiliation of being coerced into servitude by a State that had declared them subhuman.
Since human losses provoked by the Germans were in the order of tens of millions, it's perfectly plausible that the vast majority of teh Soviet population saw themselves directly affected by the German agression. It's just logical to assume that this inspired a deep sentiment of rage and despair within the Soviet population which, in the case of many would logically be manifested in violence against Germans.

4) Taking into account all mentioned above it can be concluded the Soviet Soldiers' actions, in comparison to the German soldiers' actions, far less widespread than the Germans' and product of a years long aggression, were more in the order of both isolated and non-justifiable incidents or emotionally inspired and perfectly understandable while not justifiable acts of revengeful retribution.


Understanding and thus judging the Soviet army solders' actions within the territory they managed to control requires necessarily that the events to lead to that military advance be taken into account.

i though this might be interesting for this debate.

CoolKidX wrote:

http://www.russian-victories.ru/ is a fucked up retarded site, its all like "RUSSIA IS BEST", and that US shit patriotism, a perfect site for you Alex indeed.

Look at this from the site.

Quote :

RUSSIAN SOLDIERS
ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD
NOT ONLY A TEAM BUT A TRUE BROTHERHOOD
"ONE FOR ALL – ALL FOR ONE!"

Haha, THE BEST IN THA WORLD.

Quote :

GOD IS ALWAYS WITH US:
RUSSIAN SOLDIERS MOVING TO WAR

Oh god is in it now, replace Russia with USA and you get US conservative shit patriotism.

I mean shit alex that site is total shit and I think it like's stalin or something I saw at the end, not sure, but what a dumb site "LOOK AT WHAT RUSSIA HAS WON!", and then posting shit about how Russia for example was Miss World 2008, yay, you do realize you can see how capitalistic place of shit Russia has turned into.


Also, officers of the red army while being on Germans soul, they could punish every german.

Newspapers wrote that and red officers confirmed it, and this is what a author from a soviet newspaper even said.
"The Germans have been punished in Oppeln, in Königsberg, and in Breslau. They have been punished, but yet not enough! Some have been punished, but not yet all of them."

Look at how many massacres the Soviets did, killing civilians, kids, old people, raping girls and women.

Killing civilians in German villages(Nemmersdorf massacre for example).

The Germans killed alot of Russian civilians, yes, but does that make the Russians have a reason to kill their civilians? Make them as low as them. And if you believe it is ok for the russians to pull that kinda shit, then you disgust me even more.

CKX, note that i was not advocating the site entrily, only the part explaining the suffering of Russian people during WWII. I was not saying the site was all true, but that article on how the Russians suffered was very bad- can you deny that the Russians suffered the most? And yet, you say "fuck your grandparents" and don't even remember the people who suffered?

Who remembers the people who suffered?- and
Why the hell should we remember these germans whose order was to exterminate the Slavic people?

Also- the other Allies did lots of similar things that Russians did. no, it was not right what some may have done, but we are all human and anger blinds us. How can you blame these people for what they did, who suffered so much? Imagine your whole family was killed, your home has been burnt down, and your country is being destroyed? I seriously don't understand why pick on the Russians, when other allies did the smae as well. I remember all the people who died.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

CKX, note that i was not advocating the site entrily, only the part explaining the suffering of Russian people during WWII.

Yes I know but I wasnt really replying to you I was just giving a comment about it actually.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

I was not saying the site was all true, but that article on how the Russians suffered was very bad- can you deny that the Russians suffered the most? And yet, you say "fuck your grandparents" and don't even remember the people who suffered?

Its even ididotic to say things like "Can you deny that the Russians SUFFERED the MOST?"
I mean is that really something of importance? Really? All people under the nazi regisme suffered alot, and I think that questioning who suffered the most is dumb, like after war Poland did "Who suffered the most? The polish or the jews?" but the thing was that most of those Polish were jewish who suffered.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

Who remembers the people who suffered?- and
Why the hell should we remember these germans whose order was to exterminate the Slavic people?

Most people who live in countries who were involved in WW2 remember them nation wide, and who would remember the Germans whose order was toexterminate Slavic people? Well Nazi's probably and family of them, I mean it was still a order, and in the army you follow them, so we can't fully blame them, if you wanna blame someone blame the officers.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

Also- the other Allies did lots of similar things that Russians did. no, it was not right what some may have done, but we are all human and anger blinds us. How can you blame these people for what they did, who suffered so much?

Angers blinds us yes, but we gotta keep in control. Its still a lame excuse that you rape and kill for revenge. Doesn't make them better then the one who did it first.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

Imagine your whole family was killed, your home has been burnt down, and your country is being destroyed? I seriously don't understand why pick on the Russians, when other allies did the smae as well. I remember all the people who died.

I blame the Russians the most cuz they did it way more, I mean rape victims in Berlin are estimated between hundrers of thousands to 2 million.Of the time period 1945-1948. The other allies just gave money and stuff to help Europe rebuild(a.k.a Marshall Plan.)

As I said, yes Russia was hurt byt the German. However, that in no way justifies their own actions, no matter how much less they did. "They rapped a city so we rapped a village." It's not a justifyabe action. Russia sucked. If anythin, the Brits and Americans, if it's simple quantity, were as saints in comparison.

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

, the Brits and Americans, if it's simple quantity, were as saints in comparison.

Which is entirely not true, which is what I'm trying to show you. ALl countries raped, an estimates, believe them if you want, but seriously, they are only estimates- NOT FACTS.

I'm not trying to say Russia was better because they suffered the most. I'm saying you should remember these people- they suffered more than anybody, and yet, you don't care about them at all.

Once agai, couldn't you see in the pictures it was ordinary soldiers who were doing the killing? What about that picture with ordinary soldiers, smiling in front of hanged Russians. The "death squads" - groups of ordinary soldiers who were sent to kill Russians, killed them as ruthlessly as they could. Cutting of ears and noses, beating them, crucifying them, etc- why don't you remember them? This post is about how bad the Russians suffered. you guys remember all the other allies, but not the ally that suffered the most. For the last time, all the countries raped and plundered- you guys are just picking on Russia.

Are you replying to me now or Tyrong?

And if not I wanna ask how you could know that "everyone here" remembers "all the other allies". How do you know that? How ignorant can someone be?

I bet some communists here remember the red army soldiers alot.

CoolKidX wrote:

Are you replying to me now or Tyrong?

And if not I wanna ask how you could know that "everyone here" remembers "all the other allies". How do you know that? How ignorant can someone be?

I bet some communists here remember the red army soldiers alot.

When I am replying to this, I think abut all the people who I know remember the other allies but not the Red army. I am not directly talking towards you, but to rather people like classmates who I know. Not everyone here may reember the other allies, but I know lots of people who do- this is kind of a monlouge, where I'm talking to nobody bt everybody who this applies to.

In other parts, I am directly talking to you, like the part about me saying Russia suffered the most. I'm not saying that because I think it makes Russia better- in fact, I wish nobody suffered. But Russia suffered the most during that war, and to people who think other wise, I would like to know why you think Russia didn't suffer the most. Remember this thread is about how Russia was treated by the NAZIs. they were treated the worst.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

In other parts, I am directly talking to you, like the part about me saying Russia suffered the most. I'm not saying that because I think it makes Russia better- in fact, I wish nobody suffered. But Russia suffered the most during that war, and to people who think other wise, I would like to know why you think Russia didn't suffer the most. Remember this thread is about how Russia was treated by the NAZIs. they were treated the worst.

Yea, when you reply to me quote me, that's way more easier to see then. Anyways I say Russians and Jews suffered equelly, I mean they both had a hate campaign at their ass, both were directly shot and some were taken to camps etc.

CoolKidX wrote:

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

In other parts, I am directly talking to you, like the part about me saying Russia suffered the most. I'm not saying that because I think it makes Russia better- in fact, I wish nobody suffered. But Russia suffered the most during that war, and to people who think other wise, I would like to know why you think Russia didn't suffer the most. Remember this thread is about how Russia was treated by the NAZIs. they were treated the worst.

Yea, when you reply to me quote me, that's way more easier to see then. Anyways I say Russians and Jews suffered equelly, I mean they both had a hate campaign at their ass, both were directly shot and some were taken to camps etc.

kay, I will.
At school. my friend told me that in his class, that hate to write about something they dislike, and not hated. On person said they hated something, and the teach yelled at everybody and said they didn't know what hate was, hate was the holcaust, and explained the holocuast. So I asked him if this was like the holocaust, wanting to elminate the people, and he said its different because it war. Well, in war you're not supposed to kill civvilians, are you? And it turns out I have many reltives who died in WWII because of the Germans- and many of these relatives were children or teens. I also have stories of some of my relatives escaping the Nazis, just like the Jews did. Hiding in attics, eating one potato every 2 days, etc.

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

kay, I will.
At school. my friend told me that in his class, that hate to write about something they dislike, and not hated. On person said they hated something, and the teach yelled at everybody and said they didn't know what hate was, hate was the holcaust, and explained the holocuast. So I asked him if this was like the holocaust, wanting to elminate the people, and he said its different because it war. Well, in war you're not supposed to kill civvilians, are you? And it turns out I have many reltives who died in WWII because of the Germans- and many of these relatives were children or teens. I also have stories of some of my relatives escaping the Nazis, just like the Jews did. Hiding in attics, eating one potato every 2 days, etc.

It turns out I to have relatives who lost alot of other relatives for example my grandma was there at the Battle for Arnhem(Operation Marketgarden, which the allies lost), she lost 3 out of 5 sisters at that battle and had to flee with 80 thousand people. My grandpa who I never met(tho survived the war) lived in Indonesia when WW2 broke out, and he was in a Jap camp for some years, tho survivied some of his well known friends were killed and some other relatives. Yay for family history.

BEFORE YOU READ KEEP IN MIND I HATE THE NAZIS, AND AM DEFENDING HUMAN BEINGS, NOT NAZI GERMANY

Alex, Im sorry. I can't believe that Nazis killed babies and teens. I don't believe any human being would be capable of doing that, and according to you, and a lot of second hand sources, all of the German soldiers were willing to do that. If this were true, they'd still have been doing it long after WWII, and the parents would have taught their children the same morals and so on. But Germany has been a fairly peaceful, and an extremely humane Nation since WWII. Even during the cold war, all they did was play hockey and soccer.

The Nazis had strict animal rights laws, and I don't think someone who thinks its morally wrong to kill a dog can kill a baby or child.

I believe they had mass extermination, which is a whole different concept. "One death is a tragedy, One million deaths is a statistic". Im not saying the Nazis were good, they were fucking evil. But I don't believe a human being has the capability of "throwing a baby in the air and shooting it" (which has been reported). They did have the capability of gassing the Jews/Roma/Mentally Challenged, which has a different impact on your mind than actually pulling the trigger yourself. Also, Im pretty sure the guys who turned the gas on didn't know what they were doing. They could have thought it was a real shower, and been told the jews were allergic to water. Their are zillions of zeptillions of possibilities.

Also, Alex, I don't know what the fuck your talking about. Japan suffered the most. Next to them Germany. Don't forget Poland. Not very much fighting actually happened in Russia. Every post you make, you show more and more that you only care about Russia. You obviously only care about the part of the War Russia fought in, because you didn't even think to mention Japan. I mentioned Poland, they were invaded by both the Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany. A once regal nation, now treated like nothing more but a pile of shit, both the little bitch of America and Russia.

Liche wrote:

BEFORE YOU READ KEEP IN MIND I HATE THE NAZIS, AND AM DEFENDING HUMAN BEINGS, NOT NAZI GERMANY

Alex, Im sorry. I can't believe that Nazis killed babies and teens. I don't believe any human being would be capable of doing that, and according to you, and a lot of second hand sources, all of the German soldiers were willing to do that. If this were true, they'd still have been doing it long after WWII, and the parents would have taught their children the same morals and so on. But Germany has been a fairly peaceful, and an extremely humane Nation since WWII. Even during the cold war, all they did was play hockey and soccer.

The Nazis had strict animal rights laws, and I don't think someone who thinks its morally wrong to kill a dog can kill a baby or child.

I believe they had mass extermination, which is a whole different concept. "One death is a tragedy, One million deaths is a statistic". Im not saying the Nazis were good, they were fucking evil. But I don't believe a human being has the capability of "throwing a baby in the air and shooting it" (which has been reported). They did have the capability of gassing the Jews/Roma/Mentally Challenged, which has a different impact on your mind than actually pulling the trigger yourself. Also, Im pretty sure the guys who turned the gas on didn't know what they were doing. They could have thought it was a real shower, and been told the jews were allergic to water. Their are zillions of zeptillions of possibilities.

Also, Alex, I don't know what the fuck your talking about. Japan suffered the most. Next to them Germany. Don't forget Poland. Not very much fighting actually happened in Russia. Every post you make, you show more and more that you only care about Russia. You obviously only care about the part of the War Russia fought in, because you didn't even think to mention Japan. I mentioned Poland, they were invaded by both the Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany. A once regal nation, now treated like nothing more but a pile of shit, both the little bitch of America and Russia.

Nice quote from Stalin. But you know, there's a difference between gassing somebody and killing him them first hand. These death squads, they killed by hand, and they wanted to kill in person- they liked it.

And I don't hate Germans- I dislike the Nazis(how can I forgive them) ANd did you know right now, that in the room next to mine, is a Russian guy who is on exchange from Germany. He is Russian, and he speaks German and lives in Germany. He doesn't hate Germany, he hates Nazis. And by teh way, I bet you can't find one Russian person who's relatives were murdered during the war.

And I tell everyone that Japan suffered a lot, too. If Japan comes in a convo, I always tell them how badly Japan suffered. I ask them why America had to use bombs on those millions of people- the only time a nuclear weapon has been used on people (I think - please correct me if I'm wrong). I don't say japan suffered. I think about those Japanese people. I have responded to people who are not saying anything about Russia. Well, I have to get the comp now, I iwll edit later. But I will say, the only reason I am focusing on Russia is because it was brought p at school.

Liche wrote:

Alex, Im sorry. I can't believe that Nazis killed babies and teens.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post because this is just blatantly false, because all historiographical work on the subject of Nazi Germany suggests otherwise.

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/children.html
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005142
http://www.graceproducts.com/fmnc/main.htm

Racism, propaganda, and coercion can make anyone, from the zealous patriot to the lowly clerk functionary who\'s just doing his job, into a murderer.

EDIT: I know I come off sounding harsh here, but I have to be, just as anyone else has to be when talking about the subject of the Nazis. They committed terrible atrocities, and we\'re not doing anyone any favors by trying to undercut what they did. Genocide is genocide is genocide, no matter how you try and slice and dice it.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, to answer the question posed in the title of this thread, I will say this: they were, quite possibly, treated worse than any other group that was targeted by the Nazis. From what I've read, it's more than safe to say that the Nazis killed somewhere around 3 million Soviet POWs and somewhere around 17 million Soviet civilians. Compare this with the roughly 6 million European Jews who were killed.

WeiWuWei wrote:

Liche wrote:

Alex, Im sorry. I can't believe that Nazis killed babies and teens.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post because this is just blatantly false, because all historiographical work on the subject of Nazi Germany suggests otherwise.

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/children.html
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005142
http://www.graceproducts.com/fmnc/main.htm

Racism, propaganda, and coercion can make anyone, from the zealous patriot to the lowly clerk functionary who's just doing his job, into a murderer.

EDIT: I know I come off sounding harsh here, but I have to be, just as anyone else has to be when talking about the subject of the Nazis. They committed terrible atrocities, and we're not doing anyone any favors by trying to undercut what they did. Genocide is genocide is genocide, no matter how you try and slice and dice it.

I know I still need to explain that other part, but this caught my eye. Are you saying the Nazis did not kill babies and children?

EDIT: David, the NAZIs killed relatives of mine who were children. There is not on Russian who was not related to any of those ~30 mil Soldiers or 13 mil civilians who died. Please do not say you don't believe the Nazis killed children and babies, because my own relatives died.

These death squads, they were told to kill everyone, including children. And, David, how could they continue to do it after the war? Germany had fallen- there was no way to continue. The Germans weren't like a resistance group after the war- there was no more hitler, there was no more Nazi Germany, there was no more genocide.