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 ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday

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ivan55599
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PostSubject: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:14 pm

Yep, it was 25.12. plus some updated statistics, what people thinks about Stalin: 54% gave a positive assessment of the Director of the skills of Stalin, when the negative position was only 8%. Generally, Stalin responded positively by 37%, negative 13% of the people. Мы приветствуем Вас Stalin!
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:03 pm

you are from finland?
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:48 pm

Source please.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:07 pm

non-english source tongue http://www.iltasanomat.fi/uutiset/ulkomaat/uutinen.asp?id=1824807
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:33 am

Although some of the acts of stalin are unforgivable, they are way over exaggerated. Never will I forgive Stalin for killing thousands of innocents in gulag (numbers are wildly exaggerated- only 600,000 were executed), but I will thank him for winning world war 2 and heralding the technological races that have brought us so far.
Some of Stalin's acts are unforgivable, but some are seriously exaggerated or misunderstood, and today there are many equivalents and even worse than Stalin did.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:41 am

I think that every russian leader after the revolution could win that war with that kinda army. I mean shit Stalin even shot alot of russian generals and high ranked officers so that no army coup would come. And his retarded order for "Not a step back!!"(otherwise knowns as Order No.227) and create a blocking unit that would shoot the retreaters, actually shoot their own army.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:52 am

CoolKidX wrote:
I think that every russian leader after the revolution could win that war with that kinda army. I mean shit Stalin even shot alot of russian generals and high ranked officers so that no army coup would come. And his retarded order for "Not a step back!!"(otherwise knowns as Order No.227) and create a blocking unit that would shoot the retreaters, actually shoot their own army.
It is quite arguable that this order is what could've won the war. Stalingrad was the turning point of the war- it is when the Germans began being pushed back. The Soviets ( not the Russians only - did you know I myself have Mongolian blood?) had their backs at the River Volga, and retreat would've been fatal in its own sense. Crossing over the River Volga would've just been like having the Germans aim at the backs of the soviets, and the German's Blitzkrieg tactics would've been just too fast.
The difference between German and Soviet "abuse" was that for the Germans, it was their order and policy, as ordered by Hitler, while for the Soviets it was spontaneous acts of disobedience ( which acts, I myself don't blame).
Lots of people will say that the Russian winter killed the Nazis, but that was after the Stalingrad offensive ( notice: offensive. Stalingrad Offensive was the the battle of Stalingrad, but rather the big push, the first German retreat), when the german's were already surrounded. The germans tried brining reinforcements to the "cauldron" (german: kettle or something liek that)and food, but many planes were shot down, and the germans were still fighting from germany, so very effectively, Russia was fighting on two fronts.

Sorry, my brain trail just got caught up with WW2- and after writing that, I dont wanna delete it.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:01 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:

It is quite arguable that this order is what could've won the war. Stalingrad was the turning point of the war- it is when the Germans began being pushed back. The Soviets ( not the Russians only - did you know I myself have Mongolian blood?) had their backs at the River Volga, and retreat would've been fatal in its own sense.
They didnt held the volga becuz of that order though.
And ofcourse any allies would not retreat then and I think that was actually before the order was made.
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
Crossing over the River Volga would've just been like having the Germans aim at the backs of the soviets, and the German's Blitzkrieg tactics would've been just too fast.
And so it did, just sending troops there with MG's fired and whatnot.
Yes they did reach the banks and stuff but when they tried to get more into the city it was just suicide. It was dumb for them to go further should have waited for artillery or planes from the soviets. If not just station there.
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
The difference between German and Soviet "abuse" was that for the Germans, it was their order and policy, as ordered by Hitler, while for the Soviets it was spontaneous acts of disobedience ( which acts, I myself don't blame).
Lots of people will say that the Russian winter killed the Nazis, but that was after the Stalingrad offensive ( notice: offensive. Stalingrad Offensive was the the battle of Stalingrad, but rather the big push, the first German retreat)
Yeah but while retreating the Germans faced the hard winter.
alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
The germans tried brining reinforcements to the "cauldron" (german: kettle or something liek that)and food, but many planes were shot down, and the germans were still fighting from germany, so very effectively, Russia was fighting on two fronts.
Russia was fighting one front, not two.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:12 am

You guys really don't understand the strategical genius that was required in the offensive. Do you think Stalingrad was actually how it was depicted in Enemy at the Gates, or CoD? They didn't just un off the banks - it doesn't work like that. I read an entire like 1000 page textbook on Russia participation in WW2 (my interest) and I studied maps, letters and documents.
It was much more complicated then just running at the Germans. One more myth- the Commissars didn't just order to soldiers to run when it was clearly suicidal. They only ordered when they had a chance - not just using pure numbers. In fact, the Volga froze over in the early fall, and soldiers had to be "rationed".
In Stalingrad, soldiers would fought for two weeks over one house. It would not be this block versus that block, it would be living room versus kitchen. It was some of the most grim fighting ever, I wrote a report on it. There was constant barrage of artillery, and planes flew so many sorties pilots ate while their planes were refueled and re armed, and immediately flew again.

The Winter set in after the Stalingrad offensive, after the pincer movement had surrounded the Germans. If you go on MSN some time (not now, i have to go), I can draw it for you.

In Russia, there was a monument erected immedeatley after WW2. On it, there are 4 statues- one French, one America, one British, and one Russian soldier. Not one of them is any taller than another. Take from that what you will.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:25 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
You guys really don't understand the strategical genius that was required in the offensive. Do you think Stalingrad was actually how it was depicted in Enemy at the Gates, or CoD? They didn't just un off the banks - it doesn't work like that. I read an entire like 1000 page textbook on Russia participation in WW2 (my interest) and I studied maps, letters and documents.
It was much more complicated then just running at the Germans. One more myth- the Commissars didn't just order to soldiers to run when it was clearly suicidal. They only ordered when they had a chance - not just using pure numbers. In fact, the Volga froze over in the early fall, and soldiers had to be "rationed".
In Stalingrad, soldiers would fought for two weeks over one house. It would not be this block versus that block, it would be living room versus kitchen. It was some of the most grim fighting ever, I wrote a report on it. There was constant barrage of artillery, and planes flew so many sorties pilots ate while their planes were refueled and re armed, and immediately flew again.

The Winter set in after the Stalingrad offensive, after the pincer movement had surrounded the Germans. If you go on MSN some time (not now, i have to go), I can draw it for you.

In Russia, there was a monument erected immedeatley after WW2. On it, there are 4 statues- one French, one America, one British, and one Russian soldier. Not one of them is any taller than another. Take from that what you will.
Most of this is just some information so not rally replyable.
But what is the name of that monument tell me.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:28 am

"The Monument to the Anti-Hitlerite Coalition Countries"
erected in the center of Moscow.

I wonder if there is any monument like this
anywhere in Washington, New York, London, or Paris?

http://bit.ly/58pSzg
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:54 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
"The Monument to the Anti-Hitlerite Coalition Countries"
erected in the center of Moscow.

I wonder if there is any monument like this
anywhere in Washington, New York, London, or Paris?

http://bit.ly/58pSzg
Looks nice.

Does it matter if its anywehre in Washington, NY, London or Paris etc.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:09 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
CoolKidX wrote:
I think that every russian leader after the revolution could win that war with that kinda army. I mean shit Stalin even shot alot of russian generals and high ranked officers so that no army coup would come. And his retarded order for "Not a step back!!"(otherwise knowns as Order No.227) and create a blocking unit that would shoot the retreaters, actually shoot their own army.
It is quite arguable that this order is what could've won the war. Stalingrad was the turning point of the war- it is when the Germans began being pushed back. The Soviets ( not the Russians only - did you know I myself have Mongolian blood?) had their backs at the River Volga, and retreat would've been fatal in its own sense. Crossing over the River Volga would've just been like having the Germans aim at the backs of the soviets, and the German's Blitzkrieg tactics would've been just too fast.
The difference between German and Soviet "abuse" was that for the Germans, it was their order and policy, as ordered by Hitler, while for the Soviets it was spontaneous acts of disobedience ( which acts, I myself don't blame).
Lots of people will say that the Russian winter killed the Nazis, but that was after the Stalingrad offensive ( notice: offensive. Stalingrad Offensive was the the battle of Stalingrad, but rather the big push, the first German retreat), when the german's were already surrounded. The germans tried brining reinforcements to the "cauldron" (german: kettle or something liek that)and food, but many planes were shot down, and the germans were still fighting from germany, so very effectively, Russia was fighting on two fronts.

Sorry, my brain trail just got caught up with WW2- and after writing that, I dont wanna delete it.


hmm stalingrad, turning point? not really, the russians lost more troops, tanks and planes. I think the russians won the war before it began.

the german defeat was a combanation of a few key factors, almost none of wich can be attributed to the Russians.
No 1.
Hitler failed to realise the effects of U-boats and didn't ramp up production till too late, the UK might have been defeated if the germans had just a few dozen more subs.

No 2.
Hitlers failure to arm the nation properly and fully, full war production didn't start til 1943, if hehad started in 1939 germany would have had many more millions of troops thousands of planes a a lot of tanks.

No 3.
He Orderd that the german army move south instead of north at Moscow wich was defended by a disorganized army that would have collapsed from a proper assult.

No 4(minor)
Hitler didn't autharise building of more fighter than bombers till too late and for this reason german production sufferd, als he didn't allow the mroduction of the Me-262 till it had been deigned as a bomber.
the Stg-44 was produced in too few number becuse he iddn't like it.

No.5
the British Alan turning decipherd the enigma allowing the allies(russians as well) to know german plans.

No.6 the T-34, I don't think I need to explain.

No7 german arrogance meets russia(country not stalin)-pwn.


I'm missing some but hitler was teh main reason teh Russians won.
if anything stalin aided the germans his biggest help was not interfearing with the commanders as hitler did.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:44 am

This monument was built by the Soviets, however, recognizing all the counties who defeeated Hitler. No where else were all of them recognized with a monument, or even a plaque, to my knowledge.

What defines a turning point in a war? It is when the enemy begins losing. Before then, the German army was winning everywhere. Stalingrad was where the winning stopped. Cost for Victory means nothing. Victory is victory, and no matter the cost, there is nothing better than victory. AS large as the casualties were, it was the first time that a battle turned to be victory for the Allies. Also, 80% of German forces were focused on the eastern front.

Hitler realized the usefulness of the U-Boats, that is why he had so many in production and used them since the beginning of the war. He sunk many ships, and especially cargo ships to Britain. When the enigma code was broken, however, it was much easier to track these subs and destroyed them. The sea is never a priority,and he simply needed troops and tanks more than U-Boats.

Hitler armed the Nation more than enough. The German army was the most prepared and the most armed, with millions of troops mobilized instantly and rolling fast against unprepared, shocked troops. Almost all the men able to fight did, and they fought well.

How do you know that army would've collapsed as a result? Disorganzied, as deemed by you, and you only. The German's attacked where they could, and they attacked fiercely and were defeated. The German's defeat was a collage of all teh allies, but what you are saying is the german defeat was a combanation of a few key factors, almost none of wich can be attributed to the Russians." which is entirely untrue.

The ME-262 was mostly experimental- teh first jet plane. It was seriously unreliable, cost too much, and wasted too many resources. If more were produced, it would just have been worse. However, me-109 were produced in great numbers, and Hitler's Luftwaffe was a feared air force.

Enigma was the submarine plan code! As far as I know, they only deciphered sub plans, which were of little use to the Soviets.

No.6, I dont get what you mean.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:23 am

If the ME-262 had been produced in greater numbers quicker, it would have had a larger effect. It just came too late. otherwise, bombers would have become literally useless agaonst Germany.

Though if Germany had simply focoursed on Britain first, wiping that out, then the African corps would have starved and he could have sent aid to not only Japan, but focoused their entire war effort on Russia. Russia would have fallen easilly if all of Germany's forces were focoused there. WITH the focousing and defeat of Britain, Germany's production of heavy water would also not have been sabotaged, at least not to the same level, and they would have had the bomb.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:05 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:

Though if Germany had simply focoursed on Britain first, wiping that out, then the African corps would have starved and he could have sent aid to not only Japan, but focoused their entire war effort on Russia. Russia would have fallen easilly if all of Germany's forces were focoused there. WITH the focousing and defeat of Britain, Germany's production of heavy water would also not have been sabotaged, at least not to the same level, and they would have had the bomb.
From the statistics that I have seen, 80% of German forces were already on the Eastern Front.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:34 am

Not during the allied European invasion. And again, Hitler could have focoused 100% of his forces on the Eastern front had he focoused his efforts still on England, instead of starting the war on two fronts as he did. That would have eliminated the staging area for any allied assault into Europe and starved the African roops, resulting in an easy win there. Then Russia would have been crushed as Japan and Germany met. Japan MIGHT have been beaten by America, them able to now focous entirely on them, but Germany would have gotten the bomb far earlier than America, and thus we'd all be speaking German.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:27 am

there were a few battles between Russia and Japan.
Do you think another 20% would've eliminated the USSR?
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:26 am

Considering by then they'd have the bomb? Yes.And even if not, yes, since much of Germany's abiloty to attack Russia was greatly hindered thanks to Britain, America and Canada's effrts in the west.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:44 pm

Not to forget the Atlantic Wall which was very expensive, that money and the guns that were used to build it up could also focused on the east front. I think if it was just Germany vs USSR, Germany would win.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:06 pm

i just wanted to add this:
that 94% of all axis infantry casualties from 1941 to 1945 was in the East front
and that the German army was 2/5 bigger then the Soviet Army when the war broke out between the SU and Nazi Germany.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:32 pm

Well between 1941-1944 there was nearly fighting on the west front.

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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:53 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Well between 1941-1944 there was nearly fighting on the west front.
and neither was there in 1939 and 1940, that periode was where the germans where winning
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:41 am

The Atlantic Wall was cheap compared to what was going on in teh East. You don't know Germany would've had the bomb by then. You guys are assuming much, and I have the thought that this is because you are not realizing how important the USSR was.
The other Allies definately helped, and spared so many lives, and I thank them a lot- more than you thank the USSR, that's for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: ahh, Stalin's 130th birthday   Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:04 am

Actually I think Germany would have had the bomb due to the fact that they were doing a lot of research. Said research was delayed heavilly due to sabotage, much of which would have been prevented without Britain. I mean, America beat them by only a little while.

And no, Russia was a great help. We acknowledge that.However, like most commies on this site you place more value/justice/respect on Russia and their acheivements, often times more than is deserving. I'm not saying they weren't instrumental, and in fact were the only reason the allies in the west weren;t completely overrun by German reinforcements. They however were not the singular reasons for victory in the war like you're making them out to be. It;'s like when you tried to justify their war crimes.

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