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 For followers of institutionalized religions.

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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeTue Mar 02, 2010 11:49 am

This time I'm not going to question belief in god or religion itself, for that I've made this thread.

This time I'm going to question believers' allegiance to churches and other religious institutions even from a perspective that accepts the premise that the God by which x or y institution does exist.

First of all, I guess we'll all agree that "God" stands for a supreme sentient being, an almighty, all-seeing, all-knowing omnipresent being that created us and all that surrounds us.

Then, we'll accept the premise that this being actually wants us to behave in a certain way, that is, there's a code determined by this being for his sentient creations to follow.

If you don't accept any of the above premises, you can stop reading right now.

So well, here come the questions:

1. If god is all-mighty and wanted us to follow his rules, why would he need fallible men to express his will?
2. Why would God transmit us his message through such ambigious ways, that, again, are often communicated by fallible individuals?
3. Wouldn't it be more effective for God to simply transmit his message telepathically or simply in impossible-to-doubt ways?
4. Doesn't it seem to you that institutions try to shield on people's faith and need for a sense of community to exploit them and harness power? If not, why?
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Liche
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Liche


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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 04, 2010 4:03 am

I tried going to a Church, but it didn't work out. The other people there were Elitists. I decided I don't want anything to do with institutionalized religion other than going to experience other cultures and religions.

I personally would advise not to do what I tried doing. Religion holds humanity back, think how much further we could be if the Dark Ages never happened. Think how many wars could have been avoided, how many lives could have been saved.

Sad A tear for those who have suffered at the hand of ignorance.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 04, 2010 9:41 pm

Liche wrote:
I tried going to a Church, but it didn't work out. The other people there were Elitists. I decided I don't want anything to do with institutionalized religion other than going to experience other cultures and religions.

Cetainly a good possition.

Liche wrote:

I personally would advise not to do what I tried doing. Religion holds humanity back, think how much further we could be if the Dark Ages never happened. Think how many wars could have been avoided, how many lives could have been saved.


Probably worse than the middle ages was the Mongol expansion into the Middle East. That's pretty much how the Middle East managed to become more backwards than Europe.

Liche wrote:

Sad A tear for those who have suffered at the hand of ignorance.

And for hose who are still suffering.
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CoolKidX
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 05, 2010 7:48 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Probably worse than the middle ages was the Mongol expansion into the Middle East. That's pretty much how the Middle East managed to become more backwards than Europe.


Really? Huh. Did the Mongols destory that much in the Middle East?
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 05, 2010 8:11 pm

They're the main reason the midle east is as backwards as it is today. At lest in Europe things were easier to rebuild.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 05, 2010 8:47 pm

CoolKidX wrote:



Really? Huh. Did the Mongols destory that much in the Middle East?

Yup, they destroyed a lot, more prominently a magnificent library in Baghdad which contained a good amount of all the human knowledge acquired until that date. Probably many things that were not figured out until relatively recently were found in that library.

The Mongols were probably so pissed off at so much knowledge that they threw as many books as they could into the river. It's said that for days the river turned black for all that ink.

Remember all the great contributions of the arabs, particularily to the field of mathematics. There was probably much more behind that we will never know precisely about, thanks to the Mongol hordes.

Probably they did similar things in China and simply everywhere they went so I think they must definitely be a mjor factor for so much backwardness.

Also, it's funny how naturally a discussion about institutionalised religion becomes into a discussion about backwardness and ignorance.
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alexCCCP-RUS-54321
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 06, 2010 12:21 am

I've only been to church twice.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 06, 2010 1:56 am

alexCCCP-RUS-54321 wrote:
I've only been to church twice.

Good for you, I've been to Orthodox Christian churches about thrice, to Catholic Churches about 5 times, to Mosques about thrice and to Synagogues more than 10 times.
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 06, 2010 2:04 am

Quote :
The Mongols were probably so pissed off at so much knowledge
Um, no. Actually, outside of the Arabic kingdoms, the Mongols were some fo the more advanced sivilisations. They saw the Arabs having all that advancement as a danger, and so destroyed it. Kublai wasn;t as impressive a ruler as his father. Who was actually a pretty good and just leader. In comparison to other rulers at the time, I mean.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 06, 2010 6:15 am

Tyrong Kojy wrote:
Um, no. Actually, outside of the Arabic kingdoms, the Mongols were some fo the more advanced sivilisations.

I sincerely doubt they were so advanced before invading and conquering China.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSun Mar 07, 2010 5:16 am

Ya man, if I recall correctly they stole most of their technology from China.
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Tyrong Kojy
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSun Mar 07, 2010 8:26 pm

And THEN invaded Arabia.
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Liche
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PostSubject: Re: For followers of institutionalized religions.   For followers of institutionalized religions. Icon_minitimeSun Mar 07, 2010 9:22 pm

Arabian technology surpassed that of China, at least medically and mathematically. Arabs found out how to perform cataract surgery sometime between 1100s-1300s. I believe it was somewhere between Mohammed's time and the European Dark ages that they figured out about cataract surgery.
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