Incentive in a Communist society ?

WeiWuWei wrote:

Before I get metaphorically crucified by everyone in here

Who cares, say what you want. I'll stand up with you (doesn't mean i'll agree with you, though). Some people on this site can be pretentious pricks. What they think doesn't really matter.

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driven solely on immediate desires and actions that benefit only yourself.

This is somewhat of a contradiction. Is being economically secure at all times not in ones best interest? There is a difference between self-interest and greed, as i've said before in this thread.

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Capitalism breeds the competitive, territorial nature that all living creatures possess,

Then it is societal, not natural. If we act in our own self-interest, capitalism is what blows it out of proportion and turns it into greed by condoning the ownership of vast amounts of wealth at the expense of others.

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and is, thus, more consistent with human nature. But Communism overcomes that.

Again, i think it expands our nature of self-interest into greed.

I will mention that this discussion slightly goes over my head; I can discuss governmental systems, but human instinct is something that I'm not an expert on. Admittedly, I'm simply going on my own perceptions, pessimistic though they may be.

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:

This is somewhat of a contradiction. Is being economically secure at all times not in ones best interest? There is a difference between self-interest and greed, as i've said before in this thread.

I do agree with you that it is important to distinguish between self-interest and greed, because I think that there is a discernible difference between the two, although the latter is a direct result of the former. But I think acting in one's own self-interest over the interest of others is more prone to human nature than aiding others. That desire to help others, I feel, may come more from societal conditioning; I don't think it's instinctively in our nature to do things for the benefit of others, as few animals in nature do so, aside from how parents will care for their child(ren). Rather, it is a sense that we develop.

However, I do agree with your below point,

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Then it is societal, not natural. If we act in our own self-interest, capitalism is what blows it out of proportion and turns it into greed by condoning the ownership of vast amounts of wealth at the expense of others.

I still stick to my notion that humans are more prone in most situations to instinctively want to act in self-interest, but I do accept your idea that Capitalism breeds the greed that stems from it.

Granted, I'm still not convinced that Communism, or, to a lesser extent, Socialism, is more connected to human nature, although I realize you weren't necessarily defending that point. Nevertheless, as you made a case for the societal development of greed in a Capitalist system, I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.

WeiWuWei wrote:

Granted, I'm still not convinced that Communism, or, to a lesser extent, Socialism, is more connected to human nature, although I realize you weren't necessarily defending that point.

Heh, most people i debate woulda left out that last part (bold), making for an unnecessary nuisance; Thanks for adding that. You're a cool kid, even if you're not a commie.

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I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.

Meaning you could make a case as to how advanced communism would also create greed? If so, i'd like to hear it.

I don't think communism will be just like living in little communes of 100 people. That sounds wierd to me.

First off, thanks man.

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I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.

Meaning you could make a case as to how advanced communism would also create greed? If so, i'd like to hear it.

I don't think I could... quite possibly, I could make that case for the dictators that have abused Communism, but not for the large number of people that would be living in a country under a Communist system.

Granted, I can make a case for anything, really: the issue is whether or not my case is based on facts or valid reasoning.

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I don't think communism will be just like living in little communes of 100 people. That sounds wierd to me.

If that was in reference to my usage of the word "communal", that wasn't entirely what I meant to convey. I just couldn't think of a better word to use there.

So make the effing case already.

Pannekoek wrote:

So make the effing case already.

Whoa, dude.

I'm not defending that point, I'd have to think my post out a little bit longer before I even tried. I'm just saying, if you want to make that argument, I think you can, though I wouldn't.

You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable.

Pannekoek wrote:

You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable.

As he said you can make a case for anything.

mononokifool wrote:

Pannekoek wrote:

You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable.

As he said you can make a case for anything.

"lol" sign followed..?

MarxistFreeman wrote:

mononokifool wrote:

Pannekoek wrote:

You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable.

As he said you can make a case for anything.

"lol" sign followed..?

maybe I am just bad at interbut sarcasm

Lol sign because I sounded like a religious fanatic.

you just blew your cover


lol

Did you just call me a religious fanatic? Marxism is not religion it is truth. Big difference.

i was trying to easy the tension between you and mono

Mono openly admitted to being religious.

Mono is an atheist

He believes in spiritual crap. Or maybe thats zealot. I dunno, it;s hard to tell the difference between alll these reformites.

Pannekoek wrote:

He believes in spiritual crap. Or maybe thats zealot. I dunno, it;s hard to tell the difference between alll these reformites.

i talk to mono daily

im pretty sure he isn't

Zealot then, probbly.

I am deffinatly atheist.

Aight, that's cool then. Materialism ftw.

Thread necrophilia because this is worth discussing.

I have not answered poll, because I still must do research on to the subject of both Communism, and Human nature. I think much of this is sterotypes gotten from Hobbes (has anyone played the Fable series? think those creatures are called Hobbes for a reason maybe?) sterotype that all Humans are born greedy and for the most part evil. I strongly disagree with this however.

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(has anyone played the Fable series? think those creatures are called Hobbes for a reason maybe?)

No, If I had to guess I'd say t was jsut because Hobbes is a general goblin like name, or tribal name for goblins, used rather traditionally, or at least it sounds goblin...ie.