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 Incentive in a Communist society ?

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Is communism against human nature ?
Yes
31%
 31% [ 9 ]
No
52%
 52% [ 15 ]
Undecided
17%
 17% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:10 pm

WeiWuWei wrote:
Before I get metaphorically crucified by everyone in here

Who cares, say what you want. I'll stand up with you (doesn't mean i'll agree with you, though). Some people on this site can be pretentious pricks. What they think doesn't really matter.


Quote :
driven solely on immediate desires and actions that benefit only yourself.

This is somewhat of a contradiction. Is being economically secure at all times not in ones best interest? There is a difference between self-interest and greed, as i've said before in this thread.

Quote :
Capitalism breeds the competitive, territorial nature that all living creatures possess,

Then it is societal, not natural. If we act in our own self-interest, capitalism is what blows it out of proportion and turns it into greed by condoning the ownership of vast amounts of wealth at the expense of others.

Quote :
and is, thus, more consistent with human nature. But Communism overcomes that.

Again, i think it expands our nature of self-interest into greed.

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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:39 am

I will mention that this discussion slightly goes over my head; I can discuss governmental systems, but human instinct is something that I'm not an expert on. Admittedly, I'm simply going on my own perceptions, pessimistic though they may be.

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
This is somewhat of a contradiction. Is being economically secure at all times not in ones best interest? There is a difference between self-interest and greed, as i've said before in this thread.

I do agree with you that it is important to distinguish between self-interest and greed, because I think that there is a discernible difference between the two, although the latter is a direct result of the former. But I think acting in one's own self-interest over the interest of others is more prone to human nature than aiding others. That desire to help others, I feel, may come more from societal conditioning; I don't think it's instinctively in our nature to do things for the benefit of others, as few animals in nature do so, aside from how parents will care for their child(ren). Rather, it is a sense that we develop.

However, I do agree with your below point,

Quote :
Then it is societal, not natural. If we act in our own self-interest, capitalism is what blows it out of proportion and turns it into greed by condoning the ownership of vast amounts of wealth at the expense of others.

I still stick to my notion that humans are more prone in most situations to instinctively want to act in self-interest, but I do accept your idea that Capitalism breeds the greed that stems from it.

Granted, I'm still not convinced that Communism, or, to a lesser extent, Socialism, is more connected to human nature, although I realize you weren't necessarily defending that point. Nevertheless, as you made a case for the societal development of greed in a Capitalist system, I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.
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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:29 am

WeiWuWei wrote:
Granted, I'm still not convinced that Communism, or, to a lesser extent, Socialism, is more connected to human nature, although I realize you weren't necessarily defending that point.

Heh, most people i debate woulda left out that last part (bold), making for an unnecessary nuisance; Thanks for adding that. You're a cool kid, even if you're not a commie.

Quote :
I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.

Meaning you could make a case as to how advanced communism would also create greed? If so, i'd like to hear it.

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:33 am

I don't think communism will be just like living in little communes of 100 people. That sounds wierd to me.
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WeiWuWei
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:26 am

First off, thanks man. Very Happy

Quote :
Quote :
I think I can also make the case for the more developed communal sense in a Communist system.

Meaning you could make a case as to how advanced communism would also create greed? If so, i'd like to hear it.

I don't think I could... quite possibly, I could make that case for the dictators that have abused Communism, but not for the large number of people that would be living in a country under a Communist system.

Granted, I can make a case for anything, really: the issue is whether or not my case is based on facts or valid reasoning. Wink

Quote :
I don't think communism will be just like living in little communes of 100 people. That sounds wierd to me.

If that was in reference to my usage of the word "communal", that wasn't entirely what I meant to convey. I just couldn't think of a better word to use there.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:29 am

So make the effing case already.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:33 am

Pannekoek wrote:
So make the effing case already.

Whoa, dude.

I'm not defending that point, I'd have to think my post out a little bit longer before I even tried. I'm just saying, if you want to make that argument, I think you can, though I wouldn't.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:35 am

You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:20 am

Pannekoek wrote:
You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable. lol!
As he said you can make a case for anything.

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:23 am

mononokifool wrote:
Pannekoek wrote:
You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable. lol!
As he said you can make a case for anything.

"lol" sign followed..?
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:45 am

MarxistFreeman wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
Pannekoek wrote:
You can't, no one can. Communism is the ultimate truth and is undefeatable. lol!
As he said you can make a case for anything.

"lol" sign followed..?
maybe I am just bad at interbut sarcasm santa

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:37 pm

Lol sign because I sounded like a religious fanatic.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:46 pm

you just blew your cover


lol
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:04 pm

Did you just call me a religious fanatic? Marxism is not religion it is truth. Big difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:07 pm

i was trying to easy the tension between you and mono
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:09 pm

Mono openly admitted to being religious.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:11 pm

Mono is an atheist
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:13 pm

He believes in spiritual crap. Or maybe thats zealot. I dunno, it;s hard to tell the difference between alll these reformites.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:14 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
He believes in spiritual crap. Or maybe thats zealot. I dunno, it;s hard to tell the difference between alll these reformites.

i talk to mono daily

im pretty sure he isn't
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Zealot then, probbly.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:30 pm

I am deffinatly atheist.

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:26 am

Aight, that's cool then. Materialism ftw.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon May 11, 2009 9:49 am

Thread necrophilia because this is worth discussing.

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Mon May 11, 2009 11:49 pm

I have not answered poll, because I still must do research on to the subject of both Communism, and Human nature. I think much of this is sterotypes gotten from Hobbes (has anyone played the Fable series? think those creatures are called Hobbes for a reason maybe?) sterotype that all Humans are born greedy and for the most part evil. I strongly disagree with this however.
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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Tue May 12, 2009 1:41 am

Quote :
(has anyone played the Fable series? think those creatures are called Hobbes for a reason maybe?)
No, If I had to guess I'd say t was jsut because Hobbes is a general goblin like name, or tribal name for goblins, used rather traditionally, or at least it sounds goblin...ie.

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PostSubject: Re: Incentive in a Communist society ?   Today at 7:23 am

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