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 Can anarchy work?

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Can anarchy work?
yes
18%
 18% [ 4 ]
no
50%
 50% [ 11 ]
after socialism communism can work
27%
 27% [ 6 ]
I don't know
5%
 5% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 22
 

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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:46 am

Quote :
i deny any state's ability to dissolve itself
What about a state in the Marxist definition?
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Black_Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:51 am

^^ it's possible, but we have yet to see such a state.

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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:50 am

It's closer than you think.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:55 am

you can't be a materialist thinker and reject "labeling"

being against labels is idealist and stupid

labels advance communication

everything i just typed, including this sentence, is 100% composed of labels.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:56 am

His label is antilabelism. He is so obsesses with avoiding labels that he branded himself with the label of antilabelism.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:59 pm

MarxistFreeman wrote:
you can't be a materialist thinker and reject "labeling"

What do you mean, exactly, by "labeling"

Quote :
being against labels is idealist and stupid

I think you should watch your mouth since i've been nothing but respectful to you since the moment you arrived on this site.

It's idealist to think you will get far when you alienate yourself from your comrades, who think almost exactly like you with the exception of one or two policies that may or may not make a difference (since they haven't been proven to work)

Quote :
labels advance communication

And demarcation

Quote :
everything i just typed, including this sentence, is 100% composed of labels.

Then you're obviously unaware of what i mean by labels. I'm refering to labels only to the extent of politics.

Obviously there are some groups who will refuse to work with each other, like trots with MLM's, Anarchists and Leninists, etc., but beyond that, most socialist groups are very similar, and we all have the exact same end-game.

Quote :
He is so obsesses with avoiding labels

Obsessed? That's a strong word; i don't meet the criteria for someone who is 'obsessed'.

Quote :
that he branded himself with the label of antilabelism.

Sure, you can call it that ( i guess i did in that one instance), but i'm not antilabelist for everything, just as far as political posturing. Obviously i have my ideas about who's got it right, but i won't limit myself to just that group, since they, like any other group, are weak.

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--Karl Polanyi--
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:41 am

XP

i have bad history with philosophy majors and "labels" so i apologize for being disrespectful...
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:26 am

Of course not. Law and order go hand in hand. No government, meaning no law, and you have no order. Crimes would go unpunished, fraud would be rampant, and there would be no economic system whatsoever!
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:24 pm

MarxistFreeman wrote:
XP

i have bad history with philosophy majors and "labels" so i apologize for being disrespectful...

No hard feelings. I'm more than happy to debate you in a civil manner, but let's leave the mudslinging for the politicians, eh?

Quote :
Of course not. Law and order go hand in hand.

No, they conflict. Laws serve to alienate and oppress. Poverty and the lack of freedom are the main reasons for committing crime. So in a way, law contradicts order... Just look at america.

Quote :
No government, meaning no law, and you have no order. Crimes would go unpunished, fraud would be rampant,

What's the reason for committing crime when all your needs are taken care of. And what's this baloney about fraud? You should expand on this idea so we can know what you mean.

Quote :
and there would be no economic system whatsoever!

haha, how would that work? You think anarchism would automatically revert us all into primitive hunters or something? Support your reasoning. Anarchism is a lack of heirarchical authority, not the lack of economy.

And not to make anyone feel outcasted, but i'd like to know who voted 'i don't know'.

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--Karl Polanyi--
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:07 am

Most likely inkus2000. He says he doesn't know wether communism will work or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:50 am

GOD I posted a long @$$ statement earlier. And am too tired to copy and paste it I will though. YES! ITS POSSIBLE FOR AN ANARCHY TO GOVERN A COUNTRY. JESUS. We don't just say hey man I'm gonna fuk with people and be an anarchist! Lets go to rangersurplus and by anarchist shirts. Lets spray paint shit. Lets protest. Is that what you think anarchy is?
Do I say "oh if we were communist, we'd be evil!" or "oh, I hate both liberals and conservatives. their just corrupt b@statds!"

One word EDUCATION. It is more than what is taught in school. damn now u got a song in my head their is a way to refuse and resist....anarchists just refuse to be ruled by an Iron fist, or a goverment who restricts every thing, and hides behind a shround of what they did in the past. "Oh we saved your asses in dubya dubya 2" no how many times I've heard that, in relife, more than once. Thats way more than enough. At first you laugh, then you realise they are serious, then you realise over half the population is the same. That is why I am an anarchist. I beleive in change, like most of you, I use to think Anarchy was bullsh!t, but I learnt about it. And guess what? Its a real political system! Led by it's people, not corrupt senators, or a tyrant king. Maybe by some one who is trusted, or funded the country. But their power is limted. The people do wut they want, as long as it helps the country. If you have a PHd in Partical Physics but want to work as a bar tender? Go ahead, you won't be shunned, and if your are just call the other person a dick, and go to people who respect you. Anarchists are not time travelers who wish to bring us in to the stone age. They aren't pirates who want a country were they can hide from officials. They are people who want the best out of life, and who realise what must be done, aswell as work together.

Sorry if this has bad grammar but I'm tired and I feel like I'm gonna pass out from heat exaustion lol.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:30 pm

^Utopian.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:27 pm

Quote :
^Utopian.

Insightful...

Liche wrote:
anarchists just refuse to be ruled by an Iron fist, or a goverment who restricts every thing, and hides behind a shround of what they did in the past.

Further, anarchists refuse all heirarchy.

Quote :
I use to think Anarchy was bullsh!t, but I learnt about it. And guess what? Its a real political system!

Actually it's bereft of political system. There's no need for politics in a democratically run society.

Quote :
Maybe by some one who is trusted, or funded the country.

Absolutely not. This creates heirarchy which, in turn, creates reaction and reversion to an oppressive state.

Quote :
But their power is limted.

power is the antithesis of anarchy.

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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:39 pm

APÖ = Anarchist Party of Austria

I always thought that was some kind of contradiction.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:54 am

lol anarchists think all classes can cooperate with eachother immediately after the abolition of capitalism. this is class collaborationsm which is a fscist concept. so anarchism is necessarily fascistic. also they think people will work according to their abilities AND take according to their needs right after capitalism.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:06 am

Pannekoek wrote:
lol anarchists think all classes can cooperate with eachother immediately after the abolition of capitalism.

You can say it as much as you want, it doesn't make it true. I've never talked to an anarchist who believed that the forces of reaction do not exist and/or won't do anything to take back that which is "theirs".

Quote :
this is class collaborationsm which is a fscist concept. so anarchism is necessarily fascistic.

And you would do what? Kill off all those who were formerly of the bourgeoisie and... petite bourgeoisie as well?

Quote :
also they think people will work according to their abilities AND take according to their needs right after capitalism.

And how does this change at all with a socialist transition?

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--Karl Polanyi--
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:33 am

A stateless society can not function with warring classes. Obvious fact.

A socialist transition does in fact make communism possible by eliminating alienation and commodity fetishism.
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:35 am

Pannekoek wrote:
A stateless society can not function with warring classes. Obvious fact.

No, that's not fact, that's conjecture. If you say obvious fact, you must mean by marxist definition. It may not function ideally, but it can function.

Quote :
A socialist transition does in fact make communism possible by eliminating alienation and commodity fetishism.

All you can do is speculate. Russia tried a socialist transition, and all it did was prove bakunin's point that social and political must coincide, and can't suceed one after another.

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--Karl Polanyi--
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PostSubject: Re: Can anarchy work?   Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:14 pm

USSR was a deformt workers state. True socialism worldwide will transition.
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