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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:17 am

So may of us here support a revolution to overthrow capitalism, but how exactly will it happen? There is the plain old bloody revolution, there's the strike, the election, the "making cooperatives" method. I am trying to figure out what method is favored by those on this forum.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:28 am

Revolutionary theory varies from place to place as they all have gtheor own social conditions.
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:11 am

Nope. No revolution today, chaps. Sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:15 am

revolution will occur naturally when class antagonisms become acute and obvious
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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:50 pm

are me and Oligarch the only reformist here?

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:58 pm

isn't an organised rebbelion the only way for revulution?
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nillerz
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:24 pm

The class differences won't become accute and obvious because it's all going great. Enough of this revolution nonsense... maybe later.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:36 pm

Quote :
revolution will occur naturally when class antagonisms become acute and obvious
Yeah, but how will it happen? Strikes, violence?

Quote :
The class differences won't become accute and obvious because it's all going great
That's because capitalists are exporting capital to avoid the falling rate of profit but it will come trust me.
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:54 am

nillerz wrote:
The class differences won't become accute and obvious because it's all going great. Enough of this revolution nonsense... maybe later.

There has been a large, growing gap between financial capital and production, as is inevitable in the cycle of capitalist economies, however, the gap is not entirely reflected in the real economy yet because of purchases from China and Vietnam which have non-cyclical economies because their states can still allocate and reallocate capital rather than have it be horded by the capitalist class in such a situation. This way, they don't have overproduction, or "surplus labor" but the cyclical economies will not be able stay stabilized due to the influences of China and Vietnam alone, the impending recession in the U.S. is an example of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:08 am

In short, all hell will break loose when all new markets are exhausted
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:08 am

Really sweet. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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Renegade_Kautsky
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:01 am

nillerz wrote:
The class differences won't become accute and obvious because it's all going great. Enough of this revolution nonsense... maybe later.

I would agree that under the current circumstances revolution is not coming any time soon, at least in the US...

But I think that if the wealth-gap keeps widening and the United-States looses it's middle class or if we have another depression, then it may be a very good possibility.

Now what form that Revolution would take is another matter.

I doubt it would be Marxist (in the US), but it would most likely be very populist or social-democratic.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:40 am

I still say if you look at the economic conditions and international relations...i think we are closer than you think my friend...

Im throwing my guess for all hell breaking loose in the 30s
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:38 am

Only if there's a depression or something, radicalization of society happens through events, in particularly catastrophes.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:42 am

well we are in recession...and the housing crises is snowballing...

we've got Obama running and he is either going to disappoint or be shot

we've got the the troops in the middle east

Potential counterrevolution in china

Darfur

So many heated political subjects in the states...

come on...does anyone else not smell disaster?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:58 am

Perhaps, but I have faith in Obama.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:59 am

um...

why?
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:08 am

I don't think his language of hope is just empty rhetoric, its a cognitive stepping stone out the decades old old right-wing oppression and towards changing the direction of the country.
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:14 am

oligarch wrote:
I don't think his language of hope is just empty rhetoric, its a cognitive stepping stone out the decades old old right-wing oppression and towards changing the direction of the country.

oh god

his speeches draw no class line and only serve to fool the working class into believing that he is a friend of labor. He constantly calls of national unity and has very reactionary stances on immigrants and blacks.

He is perfect for running the capitalist state.

he is a social darwinist, with right-wing economics, and a capitalist at that.

Him winning is not a gain
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oligarch
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:28 am

He's the best option, the effect that his victory would have on the political establishment and direction of the country would be a victory for the progressive left.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:16 pm

XXXXX the progressive left.

ADMIN'S NOTE: Insults lead to warnings and repeated offence will result in a ban!
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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:48 pm

Pannekoek wrote:
Fuck the progressive left.
ummmm ok

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Kenzu
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:13 pm

mononokifool wrote:
are me and Oligarch the only reformist here?

No, I am a reformist too!

Revolutions destroy too much of the economy (usually).
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Jeiro Sijakeuigwan
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:29 am

Kenzu wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
are me and Oligarch the only reformist here?

No, I am a reformist too!

Revolutions destroy too much of the economy (usually).

Case and point: Russian, Chinese, and American revolutions.

It's just too bad that the American revolution is used as a farce for imperialistic greed today.

Reform is good. But I think it should come gradually. ^^

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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:25 am

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
are me and Oligarch the only reformist here?

No, I am a reformist too!

Revolutions destroy too much of the economy (usually).

Case and point: Russian, Chinese, and American revolutions.

It's just too bad that the American revolution is used as a farce for imperialistic greed today.

Reform is good. But I think it should come gradually. ^^
yay another reformist

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PostSubject: Re: Revolution   Today at 3:18 am

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