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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:53 am

Quote :
communists aren't unuted
Not in discussion, but we are in action.
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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:44 am

mattabesta wrote:
Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
while communist want the government to provide for the people
Communists want the people to be provided for, but not by the state (im referring to the higher stage here), and anarcho-communists want the same.
LOL I like it when communists dissagree this proves that communists aren't unuted and that there is diffrenc betwen leninism and marxism and stuff like that.
we are united, we just disagree on how to get to the final stage. and then we dont even disagree that much on that but rather small things

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:48 pm

mononokifool wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
Pannekoek wrote:
Quote :
while communist want the government to provide for the people
Communists want the people to be provided for, but not by the state (im referring to the higher stage here), and anarcho-communists want the same.
LOL I like it when communists dissagree this proves that communists aren't unuted and that there is diffrenc betwen leninism and marxism and stuff like that.
we are united, we just disagree on how to get to the final stage. and then we dont even disagree that much on that but rather small things

yeah, I beleve you but as said before communism is impossibel unless evrybody aggres.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:47 pm

No it's not. There can be a few disagree-ers as long as they are no threat of counterrevolution.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:29 am

Pannekoek wrote:
No it's not. There can be a few disagree-ers as long as they are no threat of counterrevolution.

so they can make theyer own revolution to stop the opression of formerly rich pepole??

yay it's like a cycel. rich, poor, rich, poor ect.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:12 am

The rich aren't oppressed, they're suppressed.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:56 am

mononokifool wrote:
Riddler wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
anarchist are the extreme right where there is almost no government control
That means the extreme left. Extreme right are nazis, fascists and monarchists.

No I ment economicly, while communist want the government to provide for the people anarchist want the government to leave them alone.

That's not true, friend. Other socialists don't believe in government either except in the transitional period (this is where the disagreement between all socialists comes up). We're all on the left, economically and politically by the society being without government at all.

Quote :
so they can make theyer own revolution to stop the opression of formerly rich pepole??

yay it's like a cycel. rich, poor, rich, poor ect.

There aren't enough rich people for this to be a possibility. The only chance they have is to defeat us through counterrevolution whilst they still have control of the army.

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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:02 am

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
Riddler wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
anarchist are the extreme right where there is almost no government control
That means the extreme left. Extreme right are nazis, fascists and monarchists.

No I ment economicly, while communist want the government to provide for the people anarchist want the government to leave them alone.

That's not true, friend. Other socialists don't believe in government either except in the transitional period (this is where the disagreement between all socialists comes up). We're all on the left, economically and politically by the society being without government at all.

Quote :
so they can make theyer own revolution to stop the opression of formerly rich pepole??

yay it's like a cycel. rich, poor, rich, poor ect.

There aren't enough rich people for this to be a possibility. The only chance they have is to defeat us through counterrevolution whilst they still have control of the army.
I see thank you for the explenation

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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:07 pm

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
Riddler wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
anarchist are the extreme right where there is almost no government control
That means the extreme left. Extreme right are nazis, fascists and monarchists.

No I ment economicly, while communist want the government to provide for the people anarchist want the government to leave them alone.

That's not true, friend. Other socialists don't believe in government either except in the transitional period (this is where the disagreement between all socialists comes up). We're all on the left, economically and politically by the society being without government at all.

Quote :
so they can make theyer own revolution to stop the opression of formerly rich pepole??

yay it's like a cycel. rich, poor, rich, poor ect.

There aren't enough rich people for this to be a possibility. The only chance they have is to defeat us through counterrevolution whilst they still have control of the army.


in most revolutions only 1% of the pop revolt. rich pepole are at least 5%
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:48 pm

mattabesta wrote:
in most revolutions only 1% of the pop revolt. rich pepole are at least 5%

Ya, like i said, that's why they'd have to defeat us during the period of counter-revolution, since they'd probably be exiled soon after revolution.

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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:47 am

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
in most revolutions only 1% of the pop revolt. rich pepole are at least 5%

Ya, like i said, that's why they'd have to defeat us during the period of counter-revolution, since they'd probably be exiled soon after revolution.

but here is a thought, swhat about the othere cuntryes??
won't they send theyer army to help qell the uprising?
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:53 am

mattabesta wrote:
NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
in most revolutions only 1% of the pop revolt. rich pepole are at least 5%

Ya, like i said, that's why they'd have to defeat us during the period of counter-revolution, since they'd probably be exiled soon after revolution.

but here is a thought, swhat about the othere cuntryes??
won't they send theyer army to help qell the uprising?

As revolutionaries, we already know this will most likely be the case since we are a threat to the bourgeois legacy and wealth, and they wouldn't just sit idly by and let us destroy what they have "built" (and by that, i mean what we have built.)... So what's your point?

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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:58 am

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
in most revolutions only 1% of the pop revolt. rich pepole are at least 5%

Ya, like i said, that's why they'd have to defeat us during the period of counter-revolution, since they'd probably be exiled soon after revolution.

but here is a thought, swhat about the othere cuntryes??
won't they send theyer army to help qell the uprising?

As revolutionaries, we already know this will most likely be the case since we are a threat to the bourgeois legacy and wealth, and they wouldn't just sit idly by and let us destroy what they have "built" (and by that, i mean what we have built.)... So what's your point?

my point is that workers will be opressed for the rest of theyer lifes.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:12 am

mattabesta wrote:
my point is that workers will be opressed for the rest of theyer lifes.

Baseless and unfounded. Care to share some reasoning for this logic?

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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu May 08, 2008 6:25 pm

ok I went too far but still if you deport your top 5% your econamy will loose about 80% of it's money in additon to this you will also be forced to hier inexperinced pepole to do theyer jobs.

aka Brain drain.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Thu May 08, 2008 9:46 pm

mattabesta wrote:
ok I went too far but still if you deport your top 5% your econamy will loose about 80% of it's money in additon to this you will also be forced to hier inexperinced pepole to do theyer jobs.

aka Brain drain.

Alright you pseudo intellectual spamwhore
first of all your statistics are pulled out of your ass. You're trying to tell us that 1% of the population in all revolutions? Cite that please.

The boom-bust cycle as you are reffering to with your idealist and unbased coneption of everyone having cycles of wealth and poverty only applies in capitalism. Which is part of the irrationality of capitalism because it must fail economically to "suceed" economically later in accordance with the NEED to eploit workers. You also need to understand that capitalism is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie which is one class utilizing the state that defends their interests of privatized means of production under capislism against all others. A socialist revolution is directed at the STATE. By that i mean to destroy the armed forces of men(ex. police) that defend the bourgeoisie and all others that join the fight against worker's revolution. The aim is NOT TO KILL ALL OF THE RICH but rather take their property and put them to work, REAL WORK. The workers are not united in modes of thinking but they are united in interest and that interest is to achieve workers democracy, smash the capitalist state and replace it with worker's defense, and the expropriation of the ruling class which is a seizing of the means of production so as to create a COLLECTIVIZED economy in which your idealist assumption that the boom-bust cycle will continue in socialism fails. BECAUSE workers' states have a collectivized economy they have historically survived through economic crises (which you have refered to) like the Great Depression UNTOUCHED because the fallacies and irrationalities of capitalism no long er apply to them, which disregards your idealist thought experiment of having 80% of the economy failing of 5% of the rich are replaced with stupid workers. Not only is that attitude ignorant and anti-working class, but it disregards the difference in economy and the actual goals of a socialist revolution. More over, the tasks of a socialist state is to establish Dictatorship of the Proletariat which is counterpoised to the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie (Capitalism) which is the workers organized against counter revolutionary forces (LIKE the civil war in the Soviet Union which fended off 14 imperialist nations united with the white army). Socialist states exist to defend the WORLD proletariat and assist and defend them as they develop their OWN revolution against their "own" exploiters. In accordance comes the tasks of guaranteeing jobs for all and by that i don't mean jobs as in CEO of coporations, which i assume you are reffering to with workers being incompetent in fuffilling the jobs of the rich, but rather socially significant jobs and jobs that are essential to the development of socialism and the advance towards abundance and ultimately socialism. This also comes down to the tasks of the Workers' vanguard which is to educate the workers because they do not have the same access to the institutions of power like the rich do. In accordance with this education, their task is to remove the idea that manual labor is not lesser labor, without it no one lives and doing it does not make you stupid. Essentially one of it's tasks is to defeat reacionary attitudes (like yours towards the family and workers) Once socialism becomes world wide and class antagonisms are removed (because the material foundations of classes will be removed thus making it a classless society) and a state of abundance is reached (which can only be achieved with socialist production NOT profit based production) the transition to communism will be completed. That isn't to say everyone will think EXACTLY THE SAME but the material foundations of exploitation and oppression (capitalism will be non existent)

Unity does not mean dogmatic agreement, as you suggest the communists should be, but rather a democratic discussion on action to reach the same goal.

Your failure to see that is funny because capitalism is supposed to be the most democratic form in the world...lol

p.s. i am so disgusted i wasted that much finger energy on you of all people
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 11:38 am

LOL

line breakes?

anyway I think you just hate athoraties and corparations not capitalism.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 2:10 pm

Authorities and corporations are a natural part of capitalism. So is wage slavery and expolitation and alienation.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 5:52 pm

Watermelon wrote:
Authorities and corporations are a natural part of capitalism. So is wage slavery and expolitation and alienation.

exacly what I was talking about.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 6:46 pm

mattabesta wrote:
Watermelon wrote:
Authorities and corporations are a natural part of capitalism. So is wage slavery and expolitation and alienation.

exacly what I was talking about.

explain how capitalism will function without the capitalist state and private property before you start shouting your stupid uninformed accusations again.

And i am FOR authority...AGAINST capitalists
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 7:40 pm

Shabazz Freeman wrote:

Alright you pseudo intellectual spamwhore
...

This is an insult and I am giving you a WARNING for that!
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Fri May 09, 2008 11:36 pm

He hates capitalist exploitatiuon of workers also. So your accusationis incorrect.
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sat May 10, 2008 2:29 am

Kenzu wrote:
Shabazz Freeman wrote:

Alright you pseudo intellectual spamwhore
...

This is an insult and I am giving you a WARNING for that!


i knew i was gambling with that one... Mad

my bad
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sat May 10, 2008 3:00 am

You live on a native american reservation or what?
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PostSubject: Re: your goal.   Sat May 10, 2008 3:37 am

Shabazz Freeman wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
Watermelon wrote:
Authorities and corporations are a natural part of capitalism. So is wage slavery and expolitation and alienation.

exacly what I was talking about.

explain how capitalism will function without the capitalist state and private property before you start shouting your stupid uninformed accusations again.

And i am FOR authority...AGAINST capitalists

capitalism rqiers a state becuse if there is no state then there is nothing to privatise.

corparations have exsisted since specalistation beagan and I must ask you why the fuck do you think that corparations should do anything but accumulate wealth????

btw that was sarcasm.
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