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Comrade Pollett
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PostSubject: what would you do?   Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:24 pm

if another country marched in and took over your home?
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Voice of Reason
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:41 am

flee to switzerland. thats always the best way
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comiescums
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:43 am

and if switzerland will be occupied too? and USA Very Happy
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Voice of Reason
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:00 am

flee to singapore, get me some ale 'n whores
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:09 am

It depends who marches in.

If I was in Nazi occupied Czechoslovakia, and Red Army liberates it and marches through the streets, I go out and cheer!

If someone I dont like invades, I join the movement of the freedom fighters!
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comiescums
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:12 am

If Nazi occupied my country, and Red Army liberates it and marches through the streets , I join the movement of the freedom fighters! and kill those Red Army bastards!


Last edited by on Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:15 am

well.. Im not Jewish so the Nazi's wouldnt bother me. If it was one of them Communist Liberation ones it would depend on which country, Neo-USSR I would be fine but China would scare me because they take Communism to seriously..cept in actual economics.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:22 am

if I'm in a nazi occupied land and its getting invaded/liberated by the red army, I would desperately flee to singapore.
Neither Schylla nor Charybdis are a real choice for me, definitely
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:37 am

Depends on what country, and if they came here as the invaders (ex: the Americans in 1812 or Soviets in the Baltic) I'd join a resistance
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:33 am

Diogritor wrote:
well.. Im not Jewish so the Nazi's wouldnt bother me. If it was one of them Communist Liberation ones it would depend on which country, Neo-USSR I would be fine but China would scare me because they take Communism to seriously..cept in actual economics.

Do you think Nazis just prosecute Jews?
China is not communist.

As for me living in nowadays Mexico the only plausible invader would be USA. Perhaps I'd try to join resistance. If I see nothing very productive can be achieved from that I'd try to flee.
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Judge Dredd
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:44 am

Quick question if I may. How many of you have guns and training in using them effectively? I own about a dozen myself and have been trained by the US Army how to use them. I'm just curious as to others in respect to such measures. Resistance is futile if you lack the means and training to do such.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:49 am

Judge Dredd wrote:
Quick question if I may. How many of you have guns and training in using them effectively? I own about a dozen myself and have been trained by the US Army how to use them. I'm just curious as to others in respect to such measures. Resistance is futile if you lack the means and training to do such.

Resistance pretty much relies on improvisation. And many resistance movements don't have training whatsover. If you can improvise some explosives and you're careful enough you can improvise ambushes, you can make surprise strikes. It's just matter of observation, planification and getting resources.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:56 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:
Quick question if I may. How many of you have guns and training in using them effectively? I own about a dozen myself and have been trained by the US Army how to use them. I'm just curious as to others in respect to such measures. Resistance is futile if you lack the means and training to do such.

Resistance pretty much relies on improvisation. And many resistance movements don't have training whatsover. If you can improvise some explosives and you're careful enough you can improvise ambushes, you can make surprise strikes. It's just matter of observation, planification and getting resources.

Wrong. Very wrong. Wars are not fought with bombs entirely. The gun is your greatest weapon. You present a romantic view of guerrilla warfare but you still need small arms to ambush and fight against an invading force. Training is also crucial. Combat is not something you want to think about when you are in it, you want it to be second-nature and reflexive. Sorry, I have been a soldier and I'm just wanting to help alleviate incorrect notions about fighting. I hope I'm not coming off as a dick.

Almost every fighting force whether military or para-military trains to some extent.

Even Che and Castro trained when they were in Mexico to lead the coup in Cuba. Just wanting to point that out.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:11 am

Judge Dredd wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:
Quick question if I may. How many of you have guns and training in using them effectively? I own about a dozen myself and have been trained by the US Army how to use them. I'm just curious as to others in respect to such measures. Resistance is futile if you lack the means and training to do such.

Resistance pretty much relies on improvisation. And many resistance movements don't have training whatsover. If you can improvise some explosives and you're careful enough you can improvise ambushes, you can make surprise strikes. It's just matter of observation, planification and getting resources.

Wrong. Very wrong. Wars are not fought with bombs entirely. The gun is your greatest weapon. You present a romantic view of guerrilla warfare but you still need small arms to ambush and fight against an invading force. Training is also crucial. Combat is not something you want to think about when you are in it, you want it to be second-nature and reflexive. Sorry, I have been a soldier and I'm just wanting to help alleviate incorrect notions about fighting. I hope I'm not coming off as a dick.

Almost every fighting force whether military or para-military trains to some extent.

Even Che and Castro trained when they were in Mexico to lead the coup in Cuba. Just wanting to point that out.

Yeah you're right. Training is always needed to increase effectiveness but is not entirely unexpendable. Very precise planification can represent terrible hazards for an army. For example, being able to succesfully cut routes for logistics or damage infrastructure can represent considerable hindrances to an invading army.
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Judge Dredd
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:14 am

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:
Quick question if I may. How many of you have guns and training in using them effectively? I own about a dozen myself and have been trained by the US Army how to use them. I'm just curious as to others in respect to such measures. Resistance is futile if you lack the means and training to do such.

Resistance pretty much relies on improvisation. And many resistance movements don't have training whatsover. If you can improvise some explosives and you're careful enough you can improvise ambushes, you can make surprise strikes. It's just matter of observation, planification and getting resources.

Wrong. Very wrong. Wars are not fought with bombs entirely. The gun is your greatest weapon. You present a romantic view of guerrilla warfare but you still need small arms to ambush and fight against an invading force. Training is also crucial. Combat is not something you want to think about when you are in it, you want it to be second-nature and reflexive. Sorry, I have been a soldier and I'm just wanting to help alleviate incorrect notions about fighting. I hope I'm not coming off as a dick.

Almost every fighting force whether military or para-military trains to some extent.

Even Che and Castro trained when they were in Mexico to lead the coup in Cuba. Just wanting to point that out.

Yeah you're right. Training is always needed to increase effectiveness but is not entirely unexpendable. Very precise planification can represent terrible hazards for an army. For example, being able to succesfully cut routes for logistics or damage infrastructure can represent considerable hindrances to an invading army.

Which requires training in sabotage and other operations. Training is indispensable.

You do realize that armies have the time and resources to counteract your actions regarding supply cut-offs. You need to attack in order to repel them. Otherwise, you will have you head on a pike sooner or later.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:47 am

Judge. From your age I can infer that you were in Iraq and this is a GREAT example. do you think that most of the people you are fighting are highly trained Al-Quada super terrorist? No they are 15 year olds that got their hands on a few bombs back in the Sadam days and know enough on how to use it to blow up a Humvee.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:48 am

Judge Dredd wrote:


Which requires training in sabotage and other operations. Training is indispensable.

You do realize that armies have the time and resources to counteract your actions regarding supply cut-offs. You need to attack in order to repel them. Otherwise, you will have you head on a pike sooner or later.

More than training, technical knowledges.
Attacking and hiding, constatly moving, stealth can be pretty workable. And in the very same combat or action you acquire experience which serves just as or better than training.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:37 pm

Diogritor wrote:
Judge. From your age I can infer that you were in Iraq and this is a GREAT example. do you think that most of the people you are fighting are highly trained Al-Quada super terrorist? No they are 15 year olds that got their hands on a few bombs back in the Sadam days and know enough on how to use it to blow up a Humvee.

Oh wow, a Humvee. That really stops us. You do realize that every time those little bastards tried to fight us head on we completely smashed them. Why? Because the kind of fighting their used to is idiotic point and shoot fighting. No tactics, no idea of cover, no concept of use of force and direction thereof. Just stand there like a moron and shoot. The funniest thing is they fail to realize the AK-47 doesn't have the best range since it was designed for close combat.

So you'd have one moron trying to hit us at a distance of 400 or more meters and not nail a single guy. While at the same time you line his silhouette up in your sights and nail him center-mass.

And the Al-Qaeda members can't fight for shit. We've captured quite a few. Those little bastards just shoot and run and don't do that great of a job at it. The bombs that do go off and kill many people just make us have a deeper resolve to fight. I'm guessing you are not a soldier so you wouldn't understand.

I'm trying to explain that having arms and knowing how to use them effectively is more important than this notion of having bombs at hand. Bombs are more dangerous to store, more expensive (unless you make some sort of home made device, then it's cheap and dangerous), and is not as easily controlled as small arms.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:39 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:


Which requires training in sabotage and other operations. Training is indispensable.

You do realize that armies have the time and resources to counteract your actions regarding supply cut-offs. You need to attack in order to repel them. Otherwise, you will have you head on a pike sooner or later.

More than training, technical knowledges.
Attacking and hiding, constatly moving, stealth can be pretty workable. And in the very same combat or action you acquire experience which serves just as or better than training.

Yeah, you won't survive very long without some sort of training. Every fighting force that lasts a significant amount of time has had some level of training. Training is indispensable and anyone who disagrees has never seen the ugly bitch that is War.

All the things you just described start with training. Without it you are a blind man groping for the door during a fire. You might get out, you most likely won't.

And technical knowledge comes from training. Unless you're some sort of prodigy, you need training to attain such knowledge.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:05 pm

Judge Dredd wrote:

Yeah, you won't survive very long without some sort of training. Every fighting force that lasts a significant amount of time has had some level of training. Training is indispensable and anyone who disagrees has never seen the ugly bitch that is War.

You can hardly train for an unseen situation.

Judge Dredd wrote:

All the things you just described start with training. Without it you are a blind man groping for the door during a fire. You might get out, you most likely won't.

And technical knowledge comes from training. Unless you're some sort of prodigy, you need training to attain such knowledge.

Technical knowledge comes from studying. I.e a chemical engineer will know very well how to assemble, store and use bombs while a mechanical engineer knows the weaknesses of structures both knowledges being useful for sabotage.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:52 pm

Judge Dredd wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
Judge. From your age I can infer that you were in Iraq and this is a GREAT example. do you think that most of the people you are fighting are highly trained Al-Quada super terrorist? No they are 15 year olds that got their hands on a few bombs back in the Sadam days and know enough on how to use it to blow up a Humvee.

Oh wow, a Humvee. That really stops us. You do realize that every time those little bastards tried to fight us head on we completely smashed them. Why? Because the kind of fighting their used to is idiotic point and shoot fighting. No tactics, no idea of cover, no concept of use of force and direction thereof. Just stand there like a moron and shoot. The funniest thing is they fail to realize the AK-47 doesn't have the best range since it was designed for close combat.

So you'd have one moron trying to hit us at a distance of 400 or more meters and not nail a single guy. While at the same time you line his silhouette up in your sights and nail him center-mass.

And the Al-Qaeda members can't fight for shit. We've captured quite a few. Those little bastards just shoot and run and don't do that great of a job at it. The bombs that do go off and kill many people just make us have a deeper resolve to fight. I'm guessing you are not a soldier so you wouldn't understand.

I'm trying to explain that having arms and knowing how to use them effectively is more important than this notion of having bombs at hand. Bombs are more dangerous to store, more expensive (unless you make some sort of home made device, then it's cheap and dangerous), and is not as easily controlled as small arms.

One Humvee = lets say 3 dead, 1 Critically injured, 1 Mentally screwed up for the rest of his life.

Those three will make it onto the news and ruin three families here in the US. that critically wounded guy might make it but who cares..The VA cirtainly dousnt.. He will never be able to live like he did again, and the screwed up guy will be one insult away from a tower and a high powered rifle...

The guy that did it on the other hand was safe about a mile away gloating to his freinds that he defeated some infidels.

Edit: This happens every day there, why would they need to fight us head on?
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:17 am

Diogritor wrote:
Judge Dredd wrote:
Diogritor wrote:
Judge. From your age I can infer that you were in Iraq and this is a GREAT example. do you think that most of the people you are fighting are highly trained Al-Quada super terrorist? No they are 15 year olds that got their hands on a few bombs back in the Sadam days and know enough on how to use it to blow up a Humvee.

Oh wow, a Humvee. That really stops us. You do realize that every time those little bastards tried to fight us head on we completely smashed them. Why? Because the kind of fighting their used to is idiotic point and shoot fighting. No tactics, no idea of cover, no concept of use of force and direction thereof. Just stand there like a moron and shoot. The funniest thing is they fail to realize the AK-47 doesn't have the best range since it was designed for close combat.

So you'd have one moron trying to hit us at a distance of 400 or more meters and not nail a single guy. While at the same time you line his silhouette up in your sights and nail him center-mass.

And the Al-Qaeda members can't fight for shit. We've captured quite a few. Those little bastards just shoot and run and don't do that great of a job at it. The bombs that do go off and kill many people just make us have a deeper resolve to fight. I'm guessing you are not a soldier so you wouldn't understand.

I'm trying to explain that having arms and knowing how to use them effectively is more important than this notion of having bombs at hand. Bombs are more dangerous to store, more expensive (unless you make some sort of home made device, then it's cheap and dangerous), and is not as easily controlled as small arms.

One Humvee = lets say 3 dead, 1 Critically injured, 1 Mentally screwed up for the rest of his life.

Those three will make it onto the news and ruin three families here in the US. that critically wounded guy might make it but who cares..The VA cirtainly dousnt.. He will never be able to live like he did again, and the screwed up guy will be one insult away from a tower and a high powered rifle...

The guy that did it on the other hand was safe about a mile away gloating to his freinds that he defeated some infidels.

Edit: This happens every day there, why would they need to fight us head on?

Grand scheme of things, not so important. These are a small amount compared to those who come back perfectly fine.

The problem is most of you have no military experience yet are trying to tell me, someone who was in the US Army, how wars are fought. I am quite schooled in the ways of guerrilla warfare. We study that stuff in the US Army. You'd be surprised how educated some Infantrymen or "grunts" are. I have read Che's, Mao's, and several others' manifestos on Guerrilla Fighting. Every single one of them will tell you to train, arm, and prepare like any other fighting force.

As for the comment on unforeseen situations. ......Training helps with that as well. When in combat, your mind is your enemy for most things. You need to fall back on training and muscle reflex to survive. The mind isn't worthless, but in direct combat it is sometimes a hindering factor.

So in short, yes you need guns and training with them. Sad, probably none of you have access to either one.

In a twist of irony, most of the guns I own are from Soviet or other Socialist countries. One of my favorites is my little CZ-52. She is rather pretty.

I used to own an AK clone, but sold it to upgrade to an AR-15.

I'll give commies one thing, they sure know how to make a rifle.

They do from time to time fight us head on. It's usually pretty pathetic. Mostly hiding behind their women and children or sneaking around a corner and popping a few shots before scurrying back into the crowd. Cowards, utter cowards.

Not saying I'm a fan of the Iraq War, but I'm not going to support the enemy on this one. I am fiercely patriotic and will not side with an enemy force. Though I admit, my country has done horrible things. But so has you and yours. Deal with it.
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:26 am

Judge Dredd wrote:

Grand scheme of things, not so important. These are a small amount compared to those who come back perfectly fine.

The problem is most of you have no military experience yet are trying to tell me, someone who was in the US Army, how wars are fought.I am quite schooled in the ways of guerrilla warfare. We study that stuff in the US Army.

No my friend, I'm not trying at all to tell you how wars are fought. You've got both experience and academic formation on the topic and that indeed makes you an authority on it. However, to represent a problem to an invading force you don't need to engage in direct combat. With enough observation and planification and the knowledge on how to operate any kind of weapon or even develop one can be a great aid, mainly for sabotage or ambushes.

JudgeDredd wrote:
You'd be surprised how educated some Infantrymen or "grunts" are.

I have no doubt.

JudgeDredd wrote:
I have read Che's, Mao's, and several others' manifestos on Guerrilla Fighting. Every single one of them will tell you to train, arm, and prepare like any other fighting force.

Yes, training is of prime importance, arm, unexpendable, prepare, indeed. However, and as I said, there can always be found more indirect ways to fight an enemy force.

JudgeDredd wrote:

As for the comment on unforeseen situations. ......Training helps with that as well. When in combat, your mind is your enemy for most things. You need to fall back on training and muscle reflex to survive. The mind isn't worthless, but in direct combat it is sometimes a hindering factor.

You just mentioned the key word: "direct combat". Of course in direct combat you need training, you need your body to be fully responsive, you need to raise your level of awareness as much as possible, you need to be attentive of your surroundings and thinking too much about something may cost your life. But direct combat is not th only kind of combat nor the only way to attack an enemy.

JudgeDredd wrote:

So in short, yes you need guns and training with them. Sad, probably none of you have access to either one.

To battle an invading force? I insist there are many ways to battle. In some a gun will be extremely useful in others unexpendable. And indeed, once you need guns you need to train with them.

About access to guns. Well my father used to own a shotgun and a couple of rifles and he taught me how to aim. In Russia at my gf's uncle's house I was able to try a double barrell shotgun.

Here in Mexico it's somewhat difficult to buy wepons and possesing "weapons for exclusive use by the army" (ARs, ATGWs, Sniper Rifles, explosives) is illegal. There are quite few stores so you need to recurr to black market and many of the bastards at that black market do the next:

1. You go to the "store" within the market.
2. You choose your gun.
3. You pay it.
4. You're given the gun in a black bag, box or any other presentation.
5. The salesman makes a sign to a disguised Federal Security or police agent which follows you until you get out of the market.
6. The agent picks up your gun and in order not to enjail you, you pay a bribe to him.
7. The agent returns the gun to the salesman.
8. Repeat the process

JudgeDredd wrote:

In a twist of irony, most of the guns I own are from Soviet or other Socialist countries. One of my favorites is my little CZ-52. She is rather pretty.

I used to own an AK clone, but sold it to upgrade to an AR-15.

I'll give commies one thing, they sure know how to make a rifle.

On this issue I'd like to ask you: How much do these weapons generally cost in US? Where precisely do you get them?

Ak-47, AR-15, Heckler and Koch 5 (I don't remember the abreviature), Uzi, Cz-52, Dragunov Sniper Rifle, Saiga-12.

JudgeDredd wrote:

They do from time to time fight us head on. It's usually pretty pathetic. Mostly hiding behind their women and children or sneaking around a corner and popping a few shots before scurrying back into the crowd. Cowards, utter cowards.

Yeah, the way you describe it is pathetic, however I don't think ALL fight like that.

JudgeDredd wrote:

Not saying I'm a fan of the Iraq War, but I'm not going to support the enemy on this one. I am fiercely patriotic and will not side with an enemy force.

Your support for your country is understandable and I respect patriotic people. However, your country had no reason to invade Iraq except to profit from controlling it, and of course I side with opposition to the presence of US there. Indeed I won't agree with those who fight dishonorably, without principles, I'll disagree with their means. I wish they'd organize better and defined codes of conduct and ethics and maybe some have, but if in any way they truncate US's objective, at least they're not entirely useless.

JudgeDredd wrote:
Though I admit, my country has done horrible things. But so has you and yours. Deal with it.

Yes, I won't deny every country has done horrible things. But, from a communist point of view, your country is the greatest threat to the world and is the only actively harming other countries.

During the cold war and after, USSR/Russia just invaded Afghanistan and supported NK forces directly, which to some extent can be justifiable for the proximity to Soviet territory. For a comparison, US invaded Korea, Viet Nam, Granada, Iraq and Afghanistan and has Iran and Sudan on the sight. Just from a military point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:04 am

Lol Im from America too dude.

I have Two AK-47s, an AR-15, And 6 or 7 shotguns. Each I got for under 1500 dollars((That AR was the big one..the AK was like 100 bucks and some of the shotguns I got at garage sales for like 20 bucks.))

And like any other red blooded American I am heavily trained in all of these. I have no joined the Military for the simple reason that I do not want to be shipped off to a war I don't even believe in.
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PostSubject: Re: what would you do?   Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:00 pm

well i live in the north and my race cund't get purer
but i gusse it flee to the westfjords they'r really narrow and with out the roads ther is no way inn in the winter
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