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 The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party

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Should a Libertarian socialist party be set up
Yes
46%
 46% [ 6 ]
No
46%
 46% [ 6 ]
undecided
8%
 8% [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 13
 

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 12:57 am

Obama is not going to bring about worker's democracy, women's liberation, or black liberation, and will continue to use the capitalist state machinery for oppression and imperialist wars...

he's not socializing healthcare and he is for self-help politics which means not a damn bit of help for those without proper access to the means of production
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 1:06 am

Yep, that's America for you. Everything is free...as long as you have some money. The GDP and economy is only "high" (at least, on paper) because the middle classes pay a LOAD just to simply to be sheltered and be fed. Everything gets constantly recycled thru the oppressive government. Land of the frakking free, eh?

Collage pay is EXPENSIVE in the US. About $500 for books and I didn't even bother with the tuition "fee". D: Nobody is really equal. Only "privleged" people, like athletes and SMART people who study a lot, can actually be successful.

I wonder what happens to the other 90%?

America in short, is a finacial HELL.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 1:15 am

Quote :
middle classes pay a LOAD just to simply to be sheltered and be fed.

what do you mean ?



not only is collage free here for everyone but if come from a low income background you are paid while you are in collage - everyone gets a studant card which gives you discounts for transport - cinima tickets ect - because the cinimas are state property.

I could go on
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 1:27 am

inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
middle classes pay a LOAD just to simply to be sheltered and be fed.

what do you mean ?



not only is collage free here for everyone but if come from a low income background you are paid while you are in collage - everyone gets a studant card which gives you discounts for transport - cinima tickets ect - because the cinimas are state property.

I could go on
HAH that would be nice. You can live in college dormitories but it will cost you an extra grand or so a year. and most colleges require that freshmen stay on campus there first year. I would love for my college to PAY ME to go to there school. But no, I have to pay 1k a year just on books. I do have a scholarship though becuase i did well in school. But I have friends who are paying 40 thousand a year.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 1:56 am

Quote :

HAH that would be nice. You can live in college dormitories but it will cost you an extra grand or so a year. and most colleges require that freshmen stay on campus there first year. I would love for my college to PAY ME to go to there school. But no, I have to pay 1k a year just on books. I do have a scholarship though becuase i did well in school. But I have friends who are paying 40 thousand a year.



40 thousand a year ? shit thats about 30 thousand Euro,

Why is it so expensive ? do your collages not belong to the state ?
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 1:58 am

inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :

HAH that would be nice. You can live in college dormitories but it will cost you an extra grand or so a year. and most colleges require that freshmen stay on campus there first year. I would love for my college to PAY ME to go to there school. But no, I have to pay 1k a year just on books. I do have a scholarship though becuase i did well in school. But I have friends who are paying 40 thousand a year.



40 thousand a year ? shit thats about 30 thousand Euro,

Why is it so expensive ? do your collages not belong to the state ?

not the best ones oddly enough

and even the ones that do are still a bit pricey
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Mon May 05, 2008 11:10 pm

what about a center party?
liberals and socalist in the same party.
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 1:18 am

mattabesta wrote:
what about a center party?
liberals and socalist in the same party.

... Because that would be retarded, to be curt.

Quote :
not only is collage free here for everyone but if come from a low income background you are paid while you are in collage - everyone gets a studant card which gives you discounts for transport - cinima tickets ect - because the cinimas are state property.

Why don't you gloat some more? I don't know where you're refering to, but in the US, you have to be middle-class, at least, to afford any kind of decent schooling. I go to a community college, make janitor wages (cos i'm a janitor), and barely get any money in grants. I can barely afford shwag.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 6:18 am

Quote :
Why don't you gloat some more? I don't know where you're refering to, but in the US, you have to be middle-class, at least, to afford any kind of decent schooling. I go to a community college, make janitor wages (cos i'm a janitor), and barely get any money in grants. I can barely afford shwag.


You should move here to Ireland, or anywhere In Europe for that matter France is the greatest place on earth - Id live there only my French is shit. The thing about moving Is don't know how long you have to live here until your entitled to stuff - its prob not that long, as far as Im aware its about 6 years, but healthcare should be free and youd get the minimum wage ect

I know that a lot of middle class Americans move to Europe which pisses me off, they uphold a system which denies the poor anything and then move to Europe to avail of the great public services, fucking hypocrites

- Only people from low income should be allowed to come.
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 7:30 am

inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
Why don't you gloat some more? I don't know where you're refering to, but in the US, you have to be middle-class, at least, to afford any kind of decent schooling. I go to a community college, make janitor wages (cos i'm a janitor), and barely get any money in grants. I can barely afford shwag.


You should move here to Ireland, or anywhere In Europe for that matter France is the greatest place on earth - Id live there only my French is shit. The thing about moving Is don't know how long you have to live here until your entitled to stuff - its prob not that long, as far as Im aware its about 6 years, but healthcare should be free and youd get the minimum wage ect

I know that a lot of middle class Americans move to Europe which pisses me off, they uphold a system which denies the poor anything and then move to Europe to avail of the great public services, fucking hypocrites

- Only people from low income should be allowed to come.
what about those born into wealth who just generaly dont like it here. or those that also dont like it here? we cant choose to not be apart. We would be homless

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 6:28 pm

inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
Why don't you gloat some more? I don't know where you're refering to, but in the US, you have to be middle-class, at least, to afford any kind of decent schooling. I go to a community college, make janitor wages (cos i'm a janitor), and barely get any money in grants. I can barely afford shwag.


You should move here to Ireland, or anywhere In Europe for that matter France is the greatest place on earth - Id live there only my French is shit. The thing about moving Is don't know how long you have to live here until your entitled to stuff - its prob not that long, as far as Im aware its about 6 years, but healthcare should be free and youd get the minimum wage ect

I know that a lot of middle class Americans move to Europe which pisses me off, they uphold a system which denies the poor anything and then move to Europe to avail of the great public services, fucking hypocrites

Well i do plan on moving to England with my girlfriend to join Antifa and the IFA-IAF. But this could be many years off, since i am, a short time after i finish my degree, going down to Mexico to do some work with, and gain some experience from, the EZLN. I really wanna see what their collectives look like; i've heard their pretty inspiring. I haven't decided how long i'll stay there yet, so England may be several years off.

But thanks for the advice Ink. If i had the opportunity, i'd take it, but at the moment, i'm too busy being stunted and oppressed by capitalism, ya know? haha

Quote :
- Only people from low income should be allowed to come.

heh, ya. Too bad there's a wicked irony to that, since the low income people can't risk the move.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 6:31 pm

what are you studying for?

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 7:01 pm

mononokifool wrote:
what are you studying for?

Associates of Applied Science... Just fancy lingo for a criminal justice degree. The irony is palpable in this thread, eh?

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 7:16 pm

Anarchist.Dagger wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
what are you studying for?

Associates of Applied Science... Just fancy lingo for a criminal justice degree. The irony is palpable in this thread, eh?
wow why that? I think i am just going to be a professor of history, or political science, or ummm international relations. IDK

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 7:23 pm

mononokifool wrote:
Anarchist.Dagger wrote:


Associates of Applied Science... Just fancy lingo for a criminal justice degree. The irony is palpable in this thread, eh?
wow why that? I think i am just going to be a professor of history, or political science, or ummm international relations. IDK

I chose that cos i want to know my enemy. I know i'm not gonna leave the working class, lest i leave the struggle. So i don't need a degree for a job, it's just a safety net.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 8:32 pm

Anarchist.Dagger wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
what about a center party?
liberals and socalist in the same party.

... Because that would be retarded, to be curt.


In what way would it be retared??
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Tue May 06, 2008 8:47 pm

Quote :
In what way would it be retared??

because liberals are cappies
A left wing liberal or a social liberal both advocate private ownership of the means of production.

Libertarian socialists believe in public ownership - not necessarily state ownership.
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Thu May 08, 2008 12:45 am

inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
In what way would it be retared??

because liberals are cappies
A left wing liberal or a social liberal both advocate private ownership of the means of production.

Libertarian socialists believe in public ownership - not necessarily state ownership.
acctully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Thu May 08, 2008 3:20 am

mattabesta wrote:
inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
In what way would it be retared??

because liberals are cappies
A left wing liberal or a social liberal both advocate private ownership of the means of production.

Libertarian socialists believe in public ownership - not necessarily state ownership.
acctully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

And? This is not to say liberals aren't capitalists. When they talk about protecting liberties, it's just hypocritical if they are also capitalist, since capitalism is the antithesis of liberty. So unless you've got an argument, from your own brain, that didn't come from wikipedia, that overcomes this difference, i still hold that liberals and socialists forming a party together is pointless.

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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Thu May 08, 2008 3:22 am

HGELL YES
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Thu May 08, 2008 11:39 pm

Why enviro? Don't tell me you want to join it, Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Fri May 09, 2008 2:16 am

no.... i bleive that if his ideas differ from his now party, there should be a new one made.... like for you (the all knowing party)
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Fri May 09, 2008 2:37 am

You flatter me. Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Fri May 09, 2008 2:52 am

you really now your sarcasm
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PostSubject: Re: The creation of a libertarian Socialist Party   Fri May 09, 2008 11:51 am

Anarchist.Dagger wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
inkus2000 wrote:
Quote :
In what way would it be retared??

because liberals are cappies
A left wing liberal or a social liberal both advocate private ownership of the means of production.

Libertarian socialists believe in public ownership - not necessarily state ownership.
acctully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

And? This is not to say liberals aren't capitalists. When they talk about protecting liberties, it's just hypocritical if they are also capitalist, since capitalism is the antithesis of liberty. So unless you've got an argument, from your own brain, that didn't come from wikipedia, that overcomes this difference, i still hold that liberals and socialists forming a party together is pointless.

I foud it pepeole, I've found it!!

you don't hate capitalists!
you envy them!
that's why you don't have an argument that isn't an insult.
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