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WhiteWolf
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PostSubject: Wants to know more...   Wed May 07, 2008 10:29 am

As being new to these grounds I'd like to ask if some people can give me their definitions on these following words and terms. My definition may be incorrect or absurd... but please correct me if i am wrong.


Communism-def-a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Communism (my definition) - To my knowledge and what they taught me at school communism is a economic theory... not a government.

Socialism-def-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Socialism-(my definition) - a little shaky, but.. to my understanding opposite of communism because they advocate ownership and control of means of productions.


Capitalism-def-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Capitalism-(my definition) a system where the government doesn't control production, distrubtion, nor who gets paid. Basically everything is based on who has paper(money) and who can use that paper to get more paper.


I really want to understand these subjects, but by myself alone, its difficult. So may I ask that people share their perspectives, insight, and understanding of these words so that I may have a better picture?

Thanks
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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Wed May 07, 2008 8:48 pm

your are most deffinatly in the need of new definitions but i will let others do so because...well simply they can put it more eloquently. It has taken many books to describe communism. Also forget absolutly everything your school has told you about communism as its all just brainwashing material used by the bourgeoisie to control us and exploit us.

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Wed May 07, 2008 10:02 pm

WhiteWolf wrote:
As being new to these grounds I'd like to ask if some people can give me their definitions on these following words and terms. My definition may be incorrect or absurd... but please correct me if i am wrong.

Damn, puttin us to work already, eh? I'll try my best and hopefully some commies on this site can fill in the blanks i may miss.

Quote :
Communism-def-a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Basically. I would scratch that part about the state though, since communism is without a state (government). I would also add that communism is a state of abundance, with free access to all goods and services you may need or desire. Also, in a communist society, there would be no money, since there is no ability or need to make "profit".

Quote :
Communism (my definition) - To my knowledge and what they taught me at school communism is a economic theory... not a government.

It cannot be a government, because it is bereft of government. It is an economic theory yet to be ideally practiced, unfortunately.

Quote :
Socialism-def-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Well, socialism can mean a couple things. For one, it is used as the umbrella category for all anarchists and communists. Second, it is a transitionary period between capitalism and communism. This second definition is where anarchists and communists disagree (namely on democratic centralism and the need for an authoritative state in transition).

I would say that it is not necessarily the ownership and control of means of production, etc. by the community as a whole, but by the state. The state then allocates resources as it sees fit. In this period is where communists look to educate the masses, thus bringing about the social revolution, as well as where they begin to whither away the power of the state, though it will not go away completely until a state of abundance is reached.

Quote :
Socialism-(my definition) - a little shaky, but.. to my understanding opposite of communism because they advocate ownership and control of means of productions.

Not necessarily the opposite of communism, but, from a communist view, a necessary transition into communism. They do advocate the ownership of and control of the means of production, but not privately, nationally (owned by the state)

Quote :
Capitalism-def-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

In order to have capitalism you must have a couple of things. First, you need the means of production to be held by those who don't produce (one expropriation was enough, back in the 15th century). Second, you need workers who must sell their labour in order for subsistence (basically, they must work for the capitalist, or else they die). Once you have the means of production out of the hands of the producer, you have the basics of capitalism. It also helps (and some would argue it is necessary) to have a monopoly on violence upheld by the law. The police and the army would be that monopoly.

Quote :
Capitalism-(my definition) a system where the government doesn't control production, distrubtion, nor who gets paid. Basically everything is based on who has paper(money) and who can use that paper to get more paper.

They do control it through the monopoly on violence. If anyone gets out of line with the capitalist economy, they have the authority to put them back in line.

You've basically got it right in a very crude draw up.

Any questions? Did i miss anything?

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Thu May 08, 2008 12:49 am

do you need to know anything on liberalism?
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Thu May 08, 2008 1:04 am

Anarchist.Dagger wrote:
WhiteWolf wrote:
As being new to these grounds I'd like to ask if some people can give me their definitions on these following words and terms. My definition may be incorrect or absurd... but please correct me if i am wrong.

Damn, puttin us to work already, eh? I'll try my best and hopefully some commies on this site can fill in the blanks i may miss.

Quote :
Communism-def-a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Basically. I would scratch that part about the state though, since communism is without a state (government). I would also add that communism is a state of abundance, with free access to all goods and services you may need or desire. Also, in a communist society, there would be no money, since there is no ability or need to make "profit".

Quote :
Communism (my definition) - To my knowledge and what they taught me at school communism is a economic theory... not a government.

It cannot be a government, because it is bereft of government. It is an economic theory yet to be ideally practiced, unfortunately.

Quote :
Socialism-def-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Well, socialism can mean a couple things. For one, it is used as the umbrella category for all anarchists and communists. Second, it is a transitionary period between capitalism and communism. This second definition is where anarchists and communists disagree (namely on democratic centralism and the need for an authoritative state in transition).

I would say that it is not necessarily the ownership and control of means of production, etc. by the community as a whole, but by the state. The state then allocates resources as it sees fit. In this period is where communists look to educate the masses, thus bringing about the social revolution, as well as where they begin to whither away the power of the state, though it will not go away completely until a state of abundance is reached.

Quote :
Socialism-(my definition) - a little shaky, but.. to my understanding opposite of communism because they advocate ownership and control of means of productions.

Not necessarily the opposite of communism, but, from a communist view, a necessary transition into communism. They do advocate the ownership of and control of the means of production, but not privately, nationally (owned by the state)

Quote :
Capitalism-def-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

In order to have capitalism you must have a couple of things. First, you need the means of production to be held by those who don't produce (one expropriation was enough, back in the 15th century). Second, you need workers who must sell their labour in order for subsistence (basically, they must work for the capitalist, or else they die). Once you have the means of production out of the hands of the producer, you have the basics of capitalism. It also helps (and some would argue it is necessary) to have a monopoly on violence upheld by the law. The police and the army would be that monopoly.

Quote :
Capitalism-(my definition) a system where the government doesn't control production, distrubtion, nor who gets paid. Basically everything is based on who has paper(money) and who can use that paper to get more paper.

They do control it through the monopoly on violence. If anyone gets out of line with the capitalist economy, they have the authority to put them back in line.

You've basically got it right in a very crude draw up.

Any questions? Did i miss anything?


P.S.

he thinks that a manger dosn't work.
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WhiteWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Thu May 08, 2008 10:24 am

mattabesta wrote:
do you need to know anything on liberalism?

What is it? Liberalism... its alien to me. Please explain.
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Thu May 08, 2008 9:58 pm

Quote :
WhiteWolf wrote:
As being new to these grounds I'd like to ask if some people can give me their definitions on these following words and terms. My definition may be incorrect or absurd... but please correct me if i am wrong.

I can't possibly sum it up in one individual post but i will do my best.
The MARXIST analysis of the following are as follows.


Quote :

Communism-def-a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

This is incorrect. Communism is statelessness worldwide and exists in an abundance of goods. People give according to their own ability and take according to their own needs. It is a classless society in which their is no exploiting people.

Quote :

Communism (my definition) - To my knowledge and what they taught me at school communism is a economic theory... not a government.

Your school's definition is a failed definition of what we call socialism, which i will get to soon.

Quote :

Socialism-def-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
Socialism is the lower stage of communism, as in the transitional state to communism. It is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat where those who labor rule. The Soviet system of government ensures democracy for the workers and they command the "state" (which is no longer a specialized armed force of men as it is under capitalism, but made up of armed worker's themselves consisting of no special offices or privilege an a rotation of duty) In this state there is still some form of "bourgeois right" with the utilization of "democracy" and wages will likely be utilized but it is in a radically different form. Under socialism the means of production are utilized more efficiently so as to reach abundance. n accordance the tasks of socialism are to defend all other workers of the world and to advocate world revolution. Socialism is a collectivized and planned economy which adds to the fact that is is a lower stage of communism and NOT a stage of capitalism.

Quote :
Socialism-(my definition) - a little shaky, but.. to my understanding opposite of communism because they advocate ownership and control of means of productions.
As i stated above this is incorrect.

Quote :
Capitalism-def-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.
means of production****
In accordance capitalism is the repression of the ruling class against the workers by utilizing the state against them and the world proletariat in order to defend profits.


Quote :
Capitalism-(my definition) a system where the government doesn't control production, distrubtion, nor who gets paid. Basically everything is based on who has paper(money) and who can use that paper to get more paper.
not necessarily. Because the state exist to defend the ruling class, they will many times interviene in order to defend the bourgeoisie.

Fascists for example are capitalist with an extremely strong state that defends the owners of the means of production.


I'll add more later but i have to go to class
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Thu May 08, 2008 11:40 pm

Communism is when there are no classes. Socialism is when the ruling class is the workers. Capitalism is when the ruling class is the capitalists.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Fri May 09, 2008 11:47 am

WhiteWolf wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
do you need to know anything on liberalism?

What is it? Liberalism... its alien to me. Please explain.

fuck.......

man ,ok

Liberalism is usally a capitalist Ideolagy it's just one staep away from Libritarism(sp) wich is just one step from ancracy.
Liberalism supports human rights above anything else and very littel goverment involvement.
some tho are socal liberals wich use the socalist techneq but still prserv liberalism.

anyway wiki should take it from now...

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government.[2] All liberals — as well as some adherents of other political ideologies — support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[3]

Social liberals argue that governments must take an active role in promoting the freedom of citizens. They believe that real freedom can only exist when citizens are healthy, educated, and free from dire poverty. They generally favor the right to an education, the right to health care, and the right to a minimum wage. Some also favor laws against discrimination in housing and employment, laws against pollution of the environment, and the provision of welfare, including unemployment benefit and housing for the homeless, all supported by progressive taxation.[4]

Equality
Racism is incompatible with liberalism. Liberals in Europe are generally hostile to any attempts by the state to enforce equality in employment by legal action against employers, whereas in the United States many liberals favor such affirmative action. Liberals in general support equal opportunity, but not necessarily equal outcome. Most European liberal parties do not favour employment quotas for women and ethnic minorities as the best way to end gender and racial inequality. However, all agree that arbitrary discrimination on the basis of race or gender is morally wrong.

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mononokifool
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Fri May 09, 2008 6:58 pm

mattabesta wrote:


fuck.......

man ,ok

Liberalism is usally a capitalist Ideolagy it's just one staep away from Libritarism(sp) wich is just one step from ancracy.
Liberalism supports human rights above anything else and very littel goverment involvement.
some tho are socal liberals wich use the socalist techneq but still prserv liberalism.



wow you are wrong. That is conservative. Liberals believe in big government whith social welfair programs, the exact opposite of libertarian.

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 3:33 am

mononokifool wrote:
mattabesta wrote:


fuck.......

man ,ok

Liberalism is usally a capitalist Ideolagy it's just one staep away from Libritarism(sp) wich is just one step from ancracy.
Liberalism supports human rights above anything else and very littel goverment involvement.
some tho are socal liberals wich use the socalist techneq but still prserv liberalism.



wow you are wrong. That is conservative. Liberals believe in big government whith social welfair programs, the exact opposite of libertarian.

you just have to be a very shortsighted man.

you can check wiki if you want or any othere sorces and they will tell you liberals are usally right sided.
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 4:10 am

Matta. Have you even ever READ from known and RESPECTED authors such as Noam Chomsky?! Your statements are so filled with propaganda and fallacy, it's not even funny.

Here, an educational video for you.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/314722

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 7:02 am

mattabesta wrote:
mononokifool wrote:
mattabesta wrote:


fuck.......

man ,ok

Liberalism is usally a capitalist Ideolagy it's just one staep away from Libritarism(sp) wich is just one step from ancracy.
Liberalism supports human rights above anything else and very littel goverment involvement.
some tho are socal liberals wich use the socalist techneq but still prserv liberalism.



wow you are wrong. That is conservative. Liberals believe in big government whith social welfair programs, the exact opposite of libertarian.

you just have to be a very shortsighted man.

you can check wiki if you want or any othere sorces and they will tell you liberals are usally right sided.
they are economically conservative but socially left. They support big government.
Also, screw wiki.

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 10:45 am

lol at matt's attempt at serious politics...

i thought you left btw...
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 3:31 pm

Liberalism is definitely right wing. So is social democracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sat May 10, 2008 6:49 pm

Watermelon wrote:
Liberalism is definitely right wing. So is social democracy.
economically yes, but socially they are considered left especially when compared to conservatives

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 12:20 am

Not compared to me. I am ultraleft man.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 12:31 am

mononokifool wrote:
Watermelon wrote:
Liberalism is definitely right wing. So is social democracy.
economically yes, but socially they are considered left especially when compared to conservatives
fool, evrything is left in comparison to conservitives.
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Watermelon
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 1:59 am

What about nazis
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 3:59 am

Watermelon wrote:
What about nazis
and that is where I come in.

Nazism is not an economic system but rather a total bastardisation of Fascism.

Fascism- Capitalism run by the state where a dictator makes all the decisions. It can be said that this is a more pure system then Socialism is because guess what Socialism degenerates into? A State Capitalism run by a dictator!

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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 4:38 am

Watermelon wrote:
What about nazis
they are economicly centerist.
much like social democrats.
just genocidal social democrats.
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 4:23 pm

And they are nationalist and authoritarian.
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Sun May 11, 2008 5:38 pm

Watermelon wrote:
And they are nationalist and authoritarian.

yeah qite obviusly.
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WhiteWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Mon May 12, 2008 7:29 am

What is this.. Right and Left everyone keeps talking about? Can someone explain? I am confused..
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PostSubject: Re: Wants to know more...   Mon May 12, 2008 8:34 am

WhiteWolf wrote:
What is this.. Right and Left everyone keeps talking about? Can someone explain? I am confused..
Politics are explained by saying it is either left wing or right wing. In the left you have communism, socialism, anarchism and in the right you have stuff like Libertarians, fascist etc...

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