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 Capitalism of State and Socialism

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:10 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalsim

you should read this
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:39 am

mattabesta wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalsim

you should read this

And, in your view... what does that prove?
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:14 pm

capitalism rquiers most industryes to be privetly owend
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:30 am

mattabesta wrote:
capitalism rquiers most industryes to be privetly owend

No.

Capitalism merely requires any entity to be able to manage some sort of capital and invest it to get profit part of which will be reinvested to get even more profit.

It doesn't matter who manages that capital, as long as it exists there's capitalism.

Let me explain you how it works:

You get a state which owns all or most of the enterprises.
These enterprises are run on money: wage has to be paid to workers, money invested into buying materials, space, etc.
These enterprises either provide a service to society or manufacture some kind of good.
That good or service is to be sold to the society for a certain ammount of money.
That money is to be reinvested into the enterprises to pay wages, buy material and so on.
The State must have capital to keep these enterprises alive so it needs incomes from the production and sell of goods and services. If there's no income, no plusvaly, there's no capital and thus no business.

That's capitalism even if the one who manages all the enterprises is the state. It doesn't matter who runs it and how it is invested, it's still capitalism.

An example in USSR. USSR's state owns all car manufacturing companies and these cars are sold to people. If those companies fail to sell more than what they spend they go bankrupt. USSR's economy wasn't based on plusvaly but on investing mainly on military and industrial technology, education, infrastructure and construction all being expensive non-profitable sectors. USSR was employing State capitalism and as it spent more than it earned it went bankrupt. Mere capitalism.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:21 am

this is done so that a worker who likes bacon can buy lots of bacon and a orker who want's icecream can buy moar ice crem insted of the state telling them what they want
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:27 am

mattabesta wrote:
this is done so that a worker who likes bacon can buy lots of bacon and a orker who want's icecream can buy moar ice crem insted of the state telling them what they want

No, communism doesn't tell them "what they like or want". Communism simply ensures everyone will get their needs satisfied by production. Needs are fixed by a "security factor" for ammount and by scientific research for type. In the case of icecream and bacon you put a guy who likes bacon better over icrecream needs a combination of protein and greare more than carbohidrates from icecream while one that likes icecream better needs more carbohidrates.

As for the security factor: a communist government ensures that products are produced close to the maximum consumption ammount per capita so that everyone gets a fair share and even some suprplus can be used. Example: Maximum icecream consumption a day per capita/per day: 500g minimum: 0. 200 grams/per capita per/day. Many won't consume any icecream, many others will consume few and others will consume a moderate ammount while others will consume a lot.
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Voice of Reason
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:32 pm

And who decides what I need?
I prefer to make my own decisions.
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:53 am

Voice of Reason wrote:
And who decides what I need?
I prefer to make my own decisions.

As I said, resources are distributed fairly among society within a security factor: production is focused to be able to satisfy anyone's needs instead of some getting the priviledge on arbitrary "supply and demand" rules.

In any system you determine what you need, in capitalism what you get is limited by your income and overall capacity to properly manage money. In communism its limited only by the productive potencial of the industry, science and law.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:21 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:
And who decides what I need?
I prefer to make my own decisions.

As I said, resources are distributed fairly among society within a security factor: production is focused to be able to satisfy anyone's needs instead of some getting the priviledge on arbitrary "supply and demand" rules.

In any system you determine what you need, in capitalism what you get is limited by your income and overall capacity to properly manage money. In communism its limited only by the productive potencial of the industry, science and law.
so i controll nothing over what i need????
when i go to a fast food restrunt(rearly do) i know it's bad for me.
all pepole should have the freedom to do what they want as long as it dosenīt hurt others
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:40 am

mattabesta wrote:

so i controll nothing over what i need????
when i go to a fast food restrunt(rearly do) i know it's bad for me.
all pepole should have the freedom to do what they want as long as it dosenīt hurt others

That workforce, space and materials are wasted on useless things harms both society and the world.

You're not limited over what you can do, just you can't have excesses on expense of others.
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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:22 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:

so i controll nothing over what i need????
when i go to a fast food restrunt(rearly do) i know it's bad for me.
all pepole should have the freedom to do what they want as long as it dosenīt hurt others

That workforce, space and materials are wasted on useless things harms both society and the world.

You're not limited over what you can do, just you can't have excesses on expense of others.
but then thers only work and then eat then sleep ect all your life
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PostSubject: Re: Capitalism of State and Socialism   Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:14 pm

mattabesta wrote:
but then thers only work and then eat then sleep ect all your life

Complete phallacy. You work, you finish your work schedule and go home. At home you rest, maybe read something, surf in internet, watch a movie, write or do whatever you like to do in your free time. If you got friends you go out with them, you can go to a cinema or somewhere else. If you got a girlfriend you go out with her or you can stay home and do some things Wink
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