Dalai Lama

Ryom wrote:

Very good point comrade, the problem is that unfortunately it can never be proven nether to the Chinese side or the Tibetan side, i chose to belive the clams because i wouldnt be so damn surprised if they did it, if look back at history this thing is not uncommon for a (Coummunistic) dictator regime to do such things.

It can be proven or disproven by checking the demographic behaviour. It's not uncommon for western sources to claim that Stalin killed 55% of USSR's population during his regime without the least piece of evidence or someone even noticing it. It wouldn't surprise me at all that same metjhods were applied to Chinese government.

Ryom wrote:

and when Dalai Lama was in power he was only bloody 15 years old, we were all brads when we were that age and trowing him in the Gulag for his short regime (mostly under the control of China) when he was 15 is just wrong.

When I was 13 I was a zionist extremist. I used to post in some forums that Palestinians should be exterminated. (I grew up, thanks to whatever I have to thank it) So, don't understimate the mind of a teenager.

Ryom wrote:

oligarch called him a tyrannical totalitarian dictator how can he be that when never was fully in power? and we canot call him criminal without him actually doing a crime.

Probably a definition of the Dalali Lama political ideology.

Ryom wrote:

and a another thing America is one of the only industrial countries who hasent signed ¨The Child-Labor law¨ that dosent mean that if you have a 14 year old working in a sweat shop in US with 0,50$ in pay and working from 8am to 10 PM that its a human rights violation.

What's your point with that?

Ryom wrote:

and one of those links on YouTube was from BBC, dont you see BBC as a valid source?

Depends for what. In this case... hmm... well they're showing that Tiobetans are being shot by Chinese frontier soldiers... what does that prove? That China has commited genocide against tibetans? I guess it just proves that Chinese troops shoot at fleeing Tibetans.

Ryom wrote:

and its funny you say

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

often bound to land

Quote the whole sentece: Anthropologists say that a vast part of Tibetan population was under serfdom before 1951... That is while Tiben was Independent.

Ryom wrote:

because they still are do to the Hukou system Aka. China's apartheid, do to this almost all the rural workers and Tibetans was consider second class citizens. but to get back to the overall subject on this thread, i mean that we cant a not throw a peace full old man in Gulag for ¨tyrannical totalitarian dictator regime¨ he never actually had, and when he was in power he was only a bloody child, you cant except a child to run a country like Tibet, and even if we do throw him gulag for his short regime, i can honestly say that i would be ashamed of this forum.

He seems to me like e puppet of US interests, so if not for his regime, for his puppetness.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

It can be proven or disproved by checking the demographic behavior. It's not uncommon for western sources to claim that Stalin killed 55% of USSR's population during his regime without the least piece of evidence or someone even noticing it. It wouldn't surprise me at all that same methods were applied to Chinese government.

in one of my post you saw that Chinese border guards shot some unarmed Tibetans crossed the mountains to India, alot of people can ¨Disappear¨ not all of them of course.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

When I was 13 I was a zionist extremist. I used to post in some forums that Palestinians should be exterminated. (I grew up, thanks to whatever I have to thank it) So, don't understimate the mind of a teenager.

when i was younger i was a right wing, and quite a bad one to, but luckily i achieved more knowledge and matured, i dont underestimate a teenage mind, but Dalai was raised by the old leaders of Tibet so his politics might a product of that, if i knew what i know now back then i would not have been a right wing.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Probably a definition of the Dalai Lama political ideology.

from what i heard from all the people that meet with him is that he is kind wise (and as we know all wise men are socialist ) and compassionate, i simply couldnt imagine him as tyrannical totalitarian dictator, to compare, try and imagine Hitler as Rabbi in Synagog,

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

What's your point with that?

my point is that even tho technically child labor in US is not a violation to human rights but it is still consider as one in the general American public.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Depends for what. In this case... hmm... well they're showing that Tiobetans are being shot by Chinese frontier soldiers... what does that prove? That China has commited genocide against tibetans? I guess it just proves that Chinese troops shoot at fleeing Tibetans.

yes but ask your self, why are they shooting/killing unarmed Tibetans, when they can do no harm what so ever? why are they fleeing in the first place? and is this a show of a pattern from Chinas side, that shows little or no respect for Tibetans lives even tho they are just as much human as you and me?

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

He seems to me like e puppet of US interests, so if not for his regime, for his puppetness.

first let me ask, can we throw people in the Gulag for being a bit ¨puppetness¨ towards the US ? thats not a crime ( im sure Diogritor would agree) lets not forget this a forum for all people with different kinds of politics, and just becouse he seems to suck up to the US dosent mean he should be thrown into the Gulag, thats not fair to the opposition. and even if he was a puppet what the hell could he do ? he has no oil no army no money, the man dosent even have has his own bloody country. he was a good friend of Pope John Paul II, does that also mean he was a Christian?

Ryom wrote:

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

When I was 13 I was a zionist extremist. I used to post in some forums that Palestinians should be exterminated. (I grew up, thanks to whatever I have to thank it) So, don't understimate the mind of a teenager.

when i was younger i was a right wing, and quite a bad one to, but luckily i achieved more knowledge and matured, i dont underestimate a teenage mind, but Dalai was raised by the old leaders of Tibet so his politics might a product of that, if i knew what i know now back then i would not have been a right wing.

It doesn't matter where he got his political beliefs from, if he he didn't stop the gross human rights violations being carried out by his government thenn he was responsible. You're just using Riddler's insane explanation of how Stalin was not responsible for the great purges.

Quote :

from what i heard from all the people that meet with him is that he is kind wise (and as we know all wise men are socialist ) and compassionate, i simply couldnt imagine him as tyrannical totalitarian dictator, to compare, try and imagine Hitler as Rabbi in Synagog,

Hitler was 1/4 Jewish and wanted to become an artist, Stalin almost became a priest and Pol Pot was a history teacher. My father once met the Dalai Lama and from what I hear he was nice but that doesn't mean he wasn't a feudalist.

Quote :

first let me ask, can we throw people in the Gulag for being a bit ¨puppetness¨ towards the US ? thats not a crime ( im sure Diogritor would agree) lets not forget this a forum for all people with different kinds of politics, and just becouse he seems to suck up to the US dosent mean he should be thrown into the Gulag, thats not fair to the opposition. and even if he was a puppet what the hell could he do ? he has no oil no army no money, the man dosent even have has his own bloody country. he was a good friend of Pope John Paul II, does that also mean he was a Christian?

He should be thrown into the GULAG because of the brutality of his government, not because he is puppet if the US.

Im gonna say no. he ruled for 2 years when he was 15.. It ended when China invaded.

how can a 15 year old change the way the cuntry is governed when he's not even the most powerfull man in the cuntry??
some of the older nobels would have had power and if not he was raised in a fudal society so he knew nothing eles.
if we send the dali lama to the gulag then we need to send evry nobel, king and emperor beetwen 800-1800 to a gulag

mattabesta wrote:

how can a 15 year old change the way the cuntry is governed when he's not even the most powerfull man in the cuntry??
some of the older nobels would have had power and if not he was raised in a fudal society so he knew nothing eles.
if we send the dali lama to the gulag then we need to send evry nobel, king and emperor beetwen 800-1800 to a gulag

He has not condemned the way the country was governed before it was recaptured and liberated from feudalism by China but rather advocates a return to that system even now that he is not a 15 year old.

oligarch wrote:

He has not condemned the way the country was governed before it was recaptured and liberated from feudalism by China but rather advocates a return to that system even now that he is not a 15 year old.

not condemning it is not a crime, and no he dosent advocate, he dosent even what a completely free Tibet. And instead of recaptured dont you mean invaded? and killing civilian Tibetans is that what you call liberation, because if so, then that is some really half-ass liberation

Ryom wrote:

oligarch wrote:

He has not condemned the way the country was governed before it was recaptured and liberated from feudalism by China but rather advocates a return to that system even now that he is not a 15 year old.

not condemning it is not a crime, and no he dosent advocate, he dosent even what a completely free Tibet. And instead of recaptured dont you mean invaded? and killing civilian Tibetans is that what you call liberation, because if so, then that is some really half-ass liberation

Not condemning the brutality of the old government is not a crime on its own but he was head of state when it was happening and even though he may not have had the power to stop it directly, he didn't even try because he was in favor of enslaving most of the population.
The current government in Tibet is much better than the old one which killed many civilians and since the vast majority of the population is no longer enslaved as a direct result of Chinese military intervention, yes I would call that liberation.

oligarch wrote:

Not condemning the brutality of the old government is not a crime on its own but he was head of state when it was happening and even though he may not have had the power to stop it directly, he didn't even try because he was in favor of enslaving most of the population.
The current government in Tibet is much better than the old one which killed many civilians and since the vast majority of the population is no longer enslaved as a direct result of Chinese military intervention, yes I would call that liberation.

well think about this he grew up with everyone around telling him that is what is the right thing to do, nobody ever told him that it was wrong. he never even came out to the working rural workers to se his old government crimes. simply a matter of Social heritage. and the new government is also killing civilians

Ok, so lets summarize:

1.Did the Dalai Lama oppose the brutality of his regime? Does he still advocate for such a system?

2. Did Tibetans have a better life under Dalai Lama's rule than they do right now?

3. What would the implications of a free Tibet or at least more automous one be?

4. What's the Dalai Lama's view on socio-politic and economic organization?

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

how can a 15 year old change the way the cuntry is governed when he's not even the most powerfull man in the cuntry??
some of the older nobels would have had power and if not he was raised in a fudal society so he knew nothing eles.
if we send the dali lama to the gulag then we need to send evry nobel, king and emperor beetwen 800-1800 to a gulag

He has not condemned the way the country was governed before it was recaptured and liberated from feudalism by China but rather advocates a return to that system even now that he is not a 15 year old.

umm.

fudalism expects you to give your lord a part of your earning.
communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

and you get a part of it back.

mattabesta wrote:

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

and you get a part of it back.

In feudalism you are legally bound to your lord's land and you a part of his real estate. Since your lord owns you by extension he gets your earnings and you get how ever much he decides you get.

In socialism there are no lords and no masters, only workers in a worker's state.

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

and you get a part of it back.

In feudalism you are legally bound to your lord's land and you a part of his real estate. Since your lord owns you by extension he gets your earnings and you get how ever much he decides you get.

In socialism there are no lords and no masters, only workers in a worker's state.

ok but we know fudalism is bad but it still works fine.

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

Amen to that...

mattabesta wrote:

ok but we know fudalism is bad but it still works fine.

To achieve a free and equal society it doesn't. Else it doesn't work for someone who definitely wants to abolish any kind of master-servant relationship.

You can't state that something works in a general framework. Things work at relative frameworks, that is, while something might work for a given objective other won't because it serves for another purpose.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

communism expects you to give your lord all your earnings.

Sigh... You never learn, do you?

Amen to that...

mattabesta wrote:

ok but we know fudalism is bad but it still works fine.

To achieve a free and equal society it doesn't. Else it doesn't work for someone who definitely wants to abolish any kind of master-servant relationship.

You can't state that something works in a general framework. Things work at relative frameworks, that is, while something might work for a given objective other won't because it serves for another purpose.

I did mean that.

Ryom wrote:

oligarch wrote:

I suggest the Dalai Lama be sent to the gulag because he was tyrannical totalitarian dictator who kept Tibet in a feudalist slave society and dares to criticize China's much more benevolent rule.

China KILLED around 80 UNARMED protesters in Tibet, they were demonstrating for a free Tibet, is that what you call a ¨Benevolent China¨ ?

Yes, they were unarmed and very peaceful.

Lookies heres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIXoHkUlYNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

It seems Zealot was correct. Because let us face it: The West absolutely HATES communists, no matter how reformed they are in reality.

NEIN! HALT!

I hes inocent. He the maopgmdsv-ing dolly lama for kristez sake.

what dalai lama? there are many............................ BIB

I´m not sure, if he is a bad person or not. There are not enough facts, that I know.

i say no, i dont like him but gulag...

I'd need more evidence, though all seems to point towards gulag...