Did USSR work? (And impact of WWII in USSR)

I apologize if this has been written already but

the Soviet Union was a Degenerated workers state.

in it's first five years of existence, it was a healthy workers state and well on it's way to a communist society but the ultimate factors that lead to the counter revolution were

the race to industrialize the means of production on a large enough scale for all workers, surrounding counterrevolutionary powers, and Stalinist dogma of socialism in one country.

It's also important to note, that while many atrocities were committed, counterrevolution was not the answer. Political revolution that would pass down the social and political power to the workers rather than the beaurocratic regime, would have alleviated the USSR of it's problems.

The Soviet Union was state capitalist. The state owned the means of production and the workers did not have much of a say of what goes on in the state, only the Bolsheviks did. The state hired the workers and extracted the surplus value and distributed among high ranking party officials.

Pannekoek wrote:

The Soviet Union was state capitalist. The state owned the means of production and the workers did not have much of a say of what goes on in the state, only the Bolsheviks did. The state hired the workers and extracted the surplus value and distributed among high ranking party officials.

I THINK I understood that.

They overthrew capitalism and property REMAINED socialized
it's too easy to call it capitalist.

PLUS
my main focus is from 1917-1923. while i am currently reading about the russian revolution i generally have very little interest after stalin took power

They overthrew capitlism for a very temporary socialism, and went back again.

^^ Yes, you're correct. A few months of true socialist politics at best, i'd say.

they went back because of the constant pressure of 13 imperialist armies, the menshevik tendency, and Stalin taking power

Yeah, you can accomplish quite a bit with 13 armies.

The USSR was a socialist state with a planned economy that functioned for a long time it was est 60% the size of the US economy during its apex in the 1970s.

The means of production where state owned and it was controlled by a dictatorship of the proletariat, how does any of this contradict Marx's theory of history ?

For each according to his need, For each according to his ability -

Of course attempts to level all pay where rejected in the 80's and for good reason, the USSR was 'not' communist and never claimed to have achieved communism.

People should stop focusing on the bad aspects of the USSR, instead consider the condition of Russia prior to the Bolshovik revolution to what it achieved afterwards.

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The means of production where state owned and it was controlled by a dictatorship of the proletariat

The error lies here. The means of productin WERE state owned but Marx saw the state as an instrument of the working class. The USSR state owned the mop and did not represent the workers, and it exploited the workers. It was capitalist. Also it wasn't a dictatorship of the proletariat because it was a dictatorship OVER the proletariat.

it was not capitalist it was a degenerated workers state

private property did not exist. Dictatorship of the proletariat just simply did not exist

SOVIET UNION SUCKS. STALIN KILLED MILLIONS. LENIN DID TOO. SHUT UP ALREADY.

well that was insightful

ugh

What is a degenerated workers state? What is a deformed workers state?

MarxistFreeman wrote:

They overthrew capitalism and property REMAINED socialized
it's too easy to call it capitalist.

PLUS
my main focus is from 1917-1923. while i am currently reading about the russian revolution i generally have very little interest after stalin took power

17-23, you mean the time were the soviet union formes?

Yeah, that's what he's talking about.

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What is a degenerated workers state?

It's just a term Trotsky coined after Stalin consolidated power.

Quote :

it was not capitalist it was a degenerated workers state

Just cos it was a "degenerated workers state" doesn't mean it wasn't capitalist.

So was it capitalist or not? I'm confused about this.

Yes, it was. Just not in the american way.

NoJustice.NoPeace wrote:

Yes, it was. Just not in the american way.

lllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Jeiro- Laughing at me or with me? (just hard to tell over the internet)

Pannekoek wrote:

What is a degenerated workers state? What is a deformed workers state?

degenerated workers state (USSR) is the only state with a successful proletarian revolution and overthrew capitalism but, as we all know, steered away from marxism and lost worker's democracy

Deformed worker's states are ones that have overthrown capitalism but the proletariat did not carry it through and Workers have never had democracy

So mark, was it, as NJNP said, capitalist but not in the american way?

no because you have a collectivized economy and the abolition of private property. The Beaurocracy merely is an obstacle to worker's democracy and a PLANNED economy.

So the economy was not planned? I thought it was.